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This attitude is why democrats have so much trouble understanding why republicans have so much support from working class voters. People don't want to go on we

This attitude is why democrats have so much trouble understanding why republicans have so much support from working class voters. People don't want to go on welfare, they want a job. It's about identity. Free money can keep you fed but it can't give you a sense of pride and self worth.

asdfasdfa11112 10y ago
This creates an intractable problem when their job is deemed too dangerous for a civilization to allow to continue. If someone's job is their identity, and their job harms others, what are some other possible solutions? (Retraining runs into similar issues as you mentioned -- coal miners don't want to become keyboard jockeys, they want their sense of pride and self worth for doing the profession they trained for.)
- adamiscool8 10y ago
  Actually, it seems like a lot of them aren't opposed to keyboard jockeying. [1] [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-03/from-coal-to-coding-appalachian-miners-getting-a-fresh-start https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-03/from-coal...
foxylad 10y ago
Not sure about the politics, but yes. And as someone commented below, we're going to have to find socially useful jobs for another swath of blue-collar men soon, when all the trucks go automonomous. This is a BIG problem - any ideas?
ch4s3 10y ago
Then give them jobs in the parks service, pay them to clean up old mine sites, pay them to plant trees, pay them to install fiber optics lines, or anything.
- intended 10y ago
  But people want to cut funds to those departments in America right ?
  - ch4s3 10y ago
    Probably. Maybe we should label superfund sites a "terrorist plot," and see if that gets them cleaned up.
jellicle 10y ago
Then give them jobs. Plenty of old coal mining sites need to be cleaned up.
meddlepal 10y ago
Ding ding ding ding. A lot of people don't want to be treated like adult children.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Then they may accept their fate of poverty and most likely an early death if they prefer not to accept society's helping hand when their job is obsolete. That does not mean the offer should not be there for them.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- gohrt 10y ago
  Of course they do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund They just want to grandstand about it.
jfoutz 10y ago
> People don't want to go on welfare, they want a job. That right there is pretty much the issue. We could take china's approach and specifically limit the use of heavy equipment to X hours per day, requiring everything else to be done by hand. But that's stupid pointless makework, that takes longer and costs more. With free money, maybe some people learn a trade, start a band, write a book. Send people to school and maybe we get some value back in 5-10 years. I understand that people want to take a job on the line at the plant, just like dad did. Well, tough. The world isn't like that anymore. Policies might "encourage" Apple to do it's manufacturing in the U.S. A U.S. iphone factory would employ about 15 people. the security team that keeps people away from the machines. The way to stop feeling useless is to stop being useless. Don't want money to help figure out what you can do? Well, ok, best of luck. edit This may come off as mean, bitter, heartless, uncaring, vile , reprehensible and whatever other adjectives you want to throw in. Small towns are dying because there's not much reason to be there. We can subsidize them in a bunch of ways, but it's still just welfare.
- intended 10y ago
  But there you go. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. And they vote for someone who is going to give them a job. "Tough" doesn't (didn't) cut it.
- thaumaturgy 10y ago
  The obvious rebuttal to this is that those small towns now control the government. You want progressive policies? Well, tough. Rural areas are coping with exploding rates of meth, heroin, and opioid abuse, and a lot of that is directly caused by the absolutely shit quality of life they all have. You're far from the first liberal to regard rural people with contempt, and that's a big part of why we now have President Trump to contend with. Maybe it's time to start taking other people's problems a little more seriously.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - jfoutz 10y ago
finiter 10y ago
>People don't want to go on welfare, they want a job. People LOVE welfare as long as you don't call it welfare or give it to someone else. It's those other people that don't deserve it.
ngcazz 10y ago
Subsidize tourism and encourage people from rural populations to be in contact with people from metropolitan areas.

asdfasdfa11112 10y ago

This creates an intractable problem when their job is deemed too dangerous for a civilization to allow to continue. If someone's job is their identity, and their job harms others, what are some other possible solutions? (Retraining runs into similar issues as you mentioned -- coal miners don't want to become keyboard jockeys, they want their sense of pride and self worth for doing the profession they trained for.)

adamiscool8 10y ago
Actually, it seems like a lot of them aren't opposed to keyboard jockeying. [1] [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-03/from-coal-to-coding-appalachian-miners-getting-a-fresh-start https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-03/from-coal...

foxylad 10y ago

Not sure about the politics, but yes. And as someone commented below, we're going to have to find socially useful jobs for another swath of blue-collar men soon, when all the trucks go automonomous. This is a BIG problem - any ideas?

ch4s3 10y ago

Then give them jobs in the parks service, pay them to clean up old mine sites, pay them to plant trees, pay them to install fiber optics lines, or anything.

intended 10y ago
But people want to cut funds to those departments in America right ?
- ch4s3 10y ago
  Probably. Maybe we should label superfund sites a "terrorist plot," and see if that gets them cleaned up.

jellicle 10y ago

Then give them jobs. Plenty of old coal mining sites need to be cleaned up.

meddlepal 10y ago

Ding ding ding ding. A lot of people don't want to be treated like adult children.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
Then they may accept their fate of poverty and most likely an early death if they prefer not to accept society's helping hand when their job is obsolete. That does not mean the offer should not be there for them.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
gohrt 10y ago
Of course they do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund They just want to grandstand about it.

jfoutz 10y ago

> People don't want to go on welfare, they want a job. That right there is pretty much the issue. We could take china's approach and specifically limit the use of heavy equipment to X hours per day, requiring everything else to be done by hand. But that's stupid pointless makework, that takes longer and costs more. With free money, maybe some people learn a trade, start a band, write a book. Send people to school and maybe we get some value back in 5-10 years. I understand that people want to take a job on the line at the plant, just like dad did. Well, tough. The world isn't like that anymore. Policies might "encourage" Apple to do it's manufacturing in the U.S. A U.S. iphone factory would employ about 15 people. the security team that keeps people away from the machines. The way to stop feeling useless is to stop being useless. Don't want money to help figure out what you can do? Well, ok, best of luck. edit This may come off as mean, bitter, heartless, uncaring, vile , reprehensible and whatever other adjectives you want to throw in. Small towns are dying because there's not much reason to be there. We can subsidize them in a bunch of ways, but it's still just welfare.

intended 10y ago
But there you go. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. And they vote for someone who is going to give them a job. "Tough" doesn't (didn't) cut it.
thaumaturgy 10y ago
The obvious rebuttal to this is that those small towns now control the government. You want progressive policies? Well, tough. Rural areas are coping with exploding rates of meth, heroin, and opioid abuse, and a lot of that is directly caused by the absolutely shit quality of life they all have. You're far from the first liberal to regard rural people with contempt, and that's a big part of why we now have President Trump to contend with. Maybe it's time to start taking other people's problems a little more seriously.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- jfoutz 10y ago

finiter 10y ago

>People don't want to go on welfare, they want a job. People LOVE welfare as long as you don't call it welfare or give it to someone else. It's those other people that don't deserve it.

ngcazz 10y ago

Subsidize tourism and encourage people from rural populations to be in contact with people from metropolitan areas.