6 ms·

I am surprised nobody mentioned > cancel all federal funding to sanctuary cities >Some of the 31 American cities are Los Angeles (the first since 1979); Washi

I am surprised nobody mentioned > cancel all federal funding to sanctuary cities >Some of the 31 American cities are Los Angeles (the first since 1979); Washington, D.C.; New York City (see also Illegal immigration in New York City); Jersey City; Berkeley, California; Coachella, California; Philadelphia; San Francisco; Santa Ana; San Jose; Oakland; Salt Lake City; Dallas; Houston; Detroit; Chicago; Salinas, California; Minneapolis; Miami; Denver; Baltimore; Seattle; Portland, Oregon; New Haven; Somerville; Cambridge; and Portland, Maine.

sean_patel 10y ago
Despite being an independent left leaning liberal, I welcome this proposal, if they can actually implement it. I see wide-spread exploitation of the "Sanctuary City" Law in San Francisco, especially in the Restaurants, Construction site and Janitorial jobs. The Sanctuary Law, for those that don't know, forbids the Feds from asking employers about the immigration status of the employees / workers. This has caused 100s and 1000s of (mostly mexican and hispanic) undocumented immigrants to arrive and live in Sanctuary Cities (like San Francisco, LA, etc) and strain the local public services, while simultaneously being exploited by their employers. Most get paid less than minimum wage (some even as low as 8$ / hour instead of the $13.75 min wage in SF), women get abused, sexually harassed etc (in restaurant jobs).
- michaelchisari 10y ago
  And you find that cutting federal funding entirely is a reasonable, proportional response?
  - sean_patel 10y ago
    Yes. Bigly.
  - pmorici 10y ago
    That is how the federal government pressures states to do _everything_
- kstrauser 10y ago
  The more important aspect is preventing local police from having to act as immigration agents. That has a very real effect on crime: illegal immigrants don't have to be afraid of talking to police. I think we're safer when everyone feels free to report crimes and act as witnesses.
  - tent 10y ago
    I agree with your message about safety, but it is important to keep in mind that illegal immigrants are inherently breaking the law. We should not encourage keeping them safe from deportation.
    - jmcqk6 10y ago
      It is not a criminal offense to be in the country unlawfully. It gets kind of complicated, but here is a useful resource: http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/07/is-illegal-immigration-a-crime-improper-entry-v-unlawful-presence.html http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/07/is-illegal-immigrat...
      - tent 10y ago
        Thank you, that is an enlightening article. It does mention, however, that while unlawful presence is not a crime, you can still be deported for it.
    - duaneb 10y ago
      There's no law that you have to be a citizen in this country.
      - potatosoup 10y ago
        As a (legal) immigrant, I have to remind you that there is legal immigration, and illegal, let's not confuse them.
        duaneb 10y ago
- skywhopper 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure San Francisco has no power over Federal agents, and I can't find any evidence that the law attempts to "forbid the Feds from asking employers about the immigration status of the employees". Best I can tell it only forbids _City_ employees from actively assisting or spending city money to assist federal immigration agents. This is entirely reasonable. As for evasion of federal law by employERs, the employers should be the target of enforcement, not the employees.
- jchendy 10y ago
  I still can't tell _why_ you support the proposal. What are the actual problems with sanctuary laws?
  - sean_patel 10y ago
    1) Sanctuary Laws allow undocumented immigrants to live and work in such cities... for CASH. Since the employer - usually labor intensive like at Restaurants, construction sites, janitorial services etc - pays cash, the employer can pay anything, even as low as 5 to 8$ an hour. So the undocumented immigrant is getting exploited. 2) Since they are undocumented, these workers also routinely get harassed, abused by employers. I've seen 1st hand female restaurant workers touched, rubbed, groped etc in the kitchen. They can't go anywhere to complaint cos they'll get identified and deported 3) Lastly, and this is 1 of my major concerns, whenever these undocumented immigrants needs medical assistance, the city's tax payers foot the bill for the ambulance, hospitalization etc since these people (don't mean it to sound like that) also don't have health insurance. 1 Restaurant owner in the edge of the Tenderloin district told me that this population accounted for over 70K of tax payers money in 2015 (not sure how he found that out). Lastly -- and this is not something I subscribe to, but Trump made it a big deal as it is sensational and brings in the "angry white man" voters to his fold -- undocumented immigrants have committed violent crimes in San Francisco and in 1 such case, a lady was shot point blank range while she was strolling in Fisherman's Wharf (totally unrelated to deranged shooter) and Trump made it a case of "See we allow undocumented immigrants and they come and murder us."
    - jchendy 10y ago
      Thanks for the detailed response! I'm a little torn on #1. I definitely don't think anybody should be allowed to be paid less than minimum wage. But on the other hand, if these people are choosing to come to the United States to work these jobs because it's better than what they could get in their home country, it's hard for me to say they shouldn't be able to do it. Isn't #2 the whole point of sanctuary cities? In theory, the undocumented immigrants in these cities should have no fear of going to police and other authorities. Whereas in other cities the police might actually be obligated to inform immigration officials. #3 is interesting. Definitely undocumented immigrants make use of government resources, but they also help the economy by providing cheap labor. As far as I know, there isn't a strong consensus on whether the overall impact is positive or negative. For example, here's a brief article that explores both sides a bit: http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-thorny-economics-of-illegal-immigration-1454984443 http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-thorny-economics-of-illegal-...

sean_patel 10y ago

Despite being an independent left leaning liberal, I welcome this proposal, if they can actually implement it. I see wide-spread exploitation of the "Sanctuary City" Law in San Francisco, especially in the Restaurants, Construction site and Janitorial jobs. The Sanctuary Law, for those that don't know, forbids the Feds from asking employers about the immigration status of the employees / workers. This has caused 100s and 1000s of (mostly mexican and hispanic) undocumented immigrants to arrive and live in Sanctuary Cities (like San Francisco, LA, etc) and strain the local public services, while simultaneously being exploited by their employers. Most get paid less than minimum wage (some even as low as 8$ / hour instead of the $13.75 min wage in SF), women get abused, sexually harassed etc (in restaurant jobs).

michaelchisari 10y ago
And you find that cutting federal funding entirely is a reasonable, proportional response?
- sean_patel 10y ago
  Yes. Bigly.
- pmorici 10y ago
  That is how the federal government pressures states to do _everything_
kstrauser 10y ago
The more important aspect is preventing local police from having to act as immigration agents. That has a very real effect on crime: illegal immigrants don't have to be afraid of talking to police. I think we're safer when everyone feels free to report crimes and act as witnesses.
- tent 10y ago
  I agree with your message about safety, but it is important to keep in mind that illegal immigrants are inherently breaking the law. We should not encourage keeping them safe from deportation.
  - jmcqk6 10y ago
    It is not a criminal offense to be in the country unlawfully. It gets kind of complicated, but here is a useful resource: http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/07/is-illegal-immigration-a-crime-improper-entry-v-unlawful-presence.html http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/07/is-illegal-immigrat...
    - tent 10y ago
      Thank you, that is an enlightening article. It does mention, however, that while unlawful presence is not a crime, you can still be deported for it.
  - duaneb 10y ago
    There's no law that you have to be a citizen in this country.
    - potatosoup 10y ago
      As a (legal) immigrant, I have to remind you that there is legal immigration, and illegal, let's not confuse them.
      - duaneb 10y ago
skywhopper 10y ago
I'm pretty sure San Francisco has no power over Federal agents, and I can't find any evidence that the law attempts to "forbid the Feds from asking employers about the immigration status of the employees". Best I can tell it only forbids _City_ employees from actively assisting or spending city money to assist federal immigration agents. This is entirely reasonable. As for evasion of federal law by employERs, the employers should be the target of enforcement, not the employees.
jchendy 10y ago
I still can't tell _why_ you support the proposal. What are the actual problems with sanctuary laws?
- sean_patel 10y ago
  1) Sanctuary Laws allow undocumented immigrants to live and work in such cities... for CASH. Since the employer - usually labor intensive like at Restaurants, construction sites, janitorial services etc - pays cash, the employer can pay anything, even as low as 5 to 8$ an hour. So the undocumented immigrant is getting exploited. 2) Since they are undocumented, these workers also routinely get harassed, abused by employers. I've seen 1st hand female restaurant workers touched, rubbed, groped etc in the kitchen. They can't go anywhere to complaint cos they'll get identified and deported 3) Lastly, and this is 1 of my major concerns, whenever these undocumented immigrants needs medical assistance, the city's tax payers foot the bill for the ambulance, hospitalization etc since these people (don't mean it to sound like that) also don't have health insurance. 1 Restaurant owner in the edge of the Tenderloin district told me that this population accounted for over 70K of tax payers money in 2015 (not sure how he found that out). Lastly -- and this is not something I subscribe to, but Trump made it a big deal as it is sensational and brings in the "angry white man" voters to his fold -- undocumented immigrants have committed violent crimes in San Francisco and in 1 such case, a lady was shot point blank range while she was strolling in Fisherman's Wharf (totally unrelated to deranged shooter) and Trump made it a case of "See we allow undocumented immigrants and they come and murder us."
  - jchendy 10y ago
    Thanks for the detailed response! I'm a little torn on #1. I definitely don't think anybody should be allowed to be paid less than minimum wage. But on the other hand, if these people are choosing to come to the United States to work these jobs because it's better than what they could get in their home country, it's hard for me to say they shouldn't be able to do it. Isn't #2 the whole point of sanctuary cities? In theory, the undocumented immigrants in these cities should have no fear of going to police and other authorities. Whereas in other cities the police might actually be obligated to inform immigration officials. #3 is interesting. Definitely undocumented immigrants make use of government resources, but they also help the economy by providing cheap labor. As far as I know, there isn't a strong consensus on whether the overall impact is positive or negative. For example, here's a brief article that explores both sides a bit: http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-thorny-economics-of-illegal-immigration-1454984443 http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-thorny-economics-of-illegal-...