7 ms·

I guess you haven't been paying attention. Many people don't believe in Global Warming, or at the very least don't want to even slightly impact the economy. The

by melling 10y ago

I guess you haven't been paying attention. Many people don't believe in Global Warming, or at the very least don't want to even slightly impact the economy. The Democrats weren't going to hold office forever, and neither will the Republicans. The best thing for everyone would be for market-based solutions that have clear advantages. Solar, wind, electric cars, nuclear, etc. Republicans, for example, will put solar on their homes and drive electric cars if there are obvious advantages.

threeseed 10y ago
Completely ignorant position. Market based solutions only work if the market is fair i.e. all players are subject to the same conditions. The problem is (a) fossil fuels have large subsidies all up/down the chain and (b) fossil fuels do not have a surcharge for their impact on the environment.
- melling 10y ago
  Fossil fuels aren't going to get that surcharge under the Republicans. You have to play the hand you're dealt, or whine about it, telling everyone how ignorant they are. In another decade, when the Democrats take Presidency or the Senate, maybe you'll get some offsetting charges. Of course, we'll have lost a decade and the problem will be much worse, if no forward progress is made. Solar hasn't gotten cheap enough that some people really want it: https://www.wired.com/2016/03/las-vegas-utilities-really-dont-want-strip-go-solar/ https://www.wired.com/2016/03/las-vegas-utilities-really-don...
  - threeseed 10y ago
    Ironic that you are complaining about me whining but in fact you are the one putting your hands up and saying "nothing we can do about the government, best to just leave it to the market". I am more optimistic that change is possible. There are still numerous opportunities for people to convince Republicans to start believing in climate change and making the energy market fair and equitable to allow renewable technologies to compete. Look at what is happening with solar panels when their subsidies are removed. It's not pretty.
    - melling 10y ago
      I didn't say that nothing could be done. However, we need to understand that it's going to be even more difficult: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/solar-stocks-tank-and-lead-broader-energy-sector-lower-2016-11-09 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/solar-stocks-tank-and-lead-... Furthermore, we need cheap clean energy everywhere in the world. Fossil fuels are not going away fast enough. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China
peteretep 10y ago
> Many people don't believe in Global Warming I spent a lot of time reading the "Ask Trump Supporters" Reddit this cycle. Climate Change was one issue where almost all of them broke with their candidate, which was pretty interesting to me.
- melling 10y ago
  That's good to hear. I've spent a lot of time explaining to people that global warming is real. I even created a wordpress site so I can point people to a "faq" https://2cco2.wordpress.com https://2cco2.wordpress.com Just read the comments of any Wall Street Journal article on solar, coal, or even Elon Musk. People don't want electric car rebates or carbon credits.
  - acqq 10y ago
    You should then remove the entries in your blog that just contain the text of deniers like https://2cco2.wordpress.com/2015/08/04/eric-copt-global-warming-hoax-claim/ https://2cco2.wordpress.com/2015/08/04/eric-copt-global-warm... I don't understand that you even made such entries.
    - melling 10y ago
      It's only there because Eric Copt kept copying and pasting that in articles to prove his "point". I realize that it's meaningless garbage.
      - acqq 10y ago
        But now that stuff is the whole blog entry on your blog, appearing like you're behind that.
        melling 10y ago
        Good point. Thanks.
- 10y ago
exclusiv 10y ago
Agreed. Positioning is everything. If rather than saying people's cars are causing global warming, they said how about we get off our reliance of foreign energy as a matter of security and by the way it's better for the environment and energy will get cheaper, there would be more buy in. But they can't help themselves because they can't get over their disdain for skeptics. They have an agenda and it's a religion for most. I don't hear anything about the sun when climate change is brought up and it's over 99% of the mass of the solar system. Then you have people talking about feeling how warm it is when we are talking about small changes. If it was 82 outside and you polled people, you'd get all kinds of results. But suddenly anthro climate pushers are super sensitive thermometers. They talk about weather events when you try to have a climate discussion all the time. Questioning is science, especially when you can't prove it like the speed of light.
mempko 10y ago
Markets are created by states. Why the indirect route?

by melling 10y ago

threeseed 10y ago

Completely ignorant position. Market based solutions only work if the market is fair i.e. all players are subject to the same conditions. The problem is (a) fossil fuels have large subsidies all up/down the chain and (b) fossil fuels do not have a surcharge for their impact on the environment.

melling 10y ago
Fossil fuels aren't going to get that surcharge under the Republicans. You have to play the hand you're dealt, or whine about it, telling everyone how ignorant they are. In another decade, when the Democrats take Presidency or the Senate, maybe you'll get some offsetting charges. Of course, we'll have lost a decade and the problem will be much worse, if no forward progress is made. Solar hasn't gotten cheap enough that some people really want it: https://www.wired.com/2016/03/las-vegas-utilities-really-dont-want-strip-go-solar/ https://www.wired.com/2016/03/las-vegas-utilities-really-don...
- threeseed 10y ago
  Ironic that you are complaining about me whining but in fact you are the one putting your hands up and saying "nothing we can do about the government, best to just leave it to the market". I am more optimistic that change is possible. There are still numerous opportunities for people to convince Republicans to start believing in climate change and making the energy market fair and equitable to allow renewable technologies to compete. Look at what is happening with solar panels when their subsidies are removed. It's not pretty.
  - melling 10y ago
    I didn't say that nothing could be done. However, we need to understand that it's going to be even more difficult: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/solar-stocks-tank-and-lead-broader-energy-sector-lower-2016-11-09 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/solar-stocks-tank-and-lead-... Furthermore, we need cheap clean energy everywhere in the world. Fossil fuels are not going away fast enough. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China

peteretep 10y ago

> Many people don't believe in Global Warming I spent a lot of time reading the "Ask Trump Supporters" Reddit this cycle. Climate Change was one issue where almost all of them broke with their candidate, which was pretty interesting to me.

melling 10y ago
That's good to hear. I've spent a lot of time explaining to people that global warming is real. I even created a wordpress site so I can point people to a "faq" https://2cco2.wordpress.com https://2cco2.wordpress.com Just read the comments of any Wall Street Journal article on solar, coal, or even Elon Musk. People don't want electric car rebates or carbon credits.
- acqq 10y ago
  You should then remove the entries in your blog that just contain the text of deniers like https://2cco2.wordpress.com/2015/08/04/eric-copt-global-warming-hoax-claim/ https://2cco2.wordpress.com/2015/08/04/eric-copt-global-warm... I don't understand that you even made such entries.
  - melling 10y ago
    It's only there because Eric Copt kept copying and pasting that in articles to prove his "point". I realize that it's meaningless garbage.
    - acqq 10y ago
      But now that stuff is the whole blog entry on your blog, appearing like you're behind that.
      - melling 10y ago
        Good point. Thanks.
10y ago

exclusiv 10y ago

Agreed. Positioning is everything. If rather than saying people's cars are causing global warming, they said how about we get off our reliance of foreign energy as a matter of security and by the way it's better for the environment and energy will get cheaper, there would be more buy in. But they can't help themselves because they can't get over their disdain for skeptics. They have an agenda and it's a religion for most. I don't hear anything about the sun when climate change is brought up and it's over 99% of the mass of the solar system. Then you have people talking about feeling how warm it is when we are talking about small changes. If it was 82 outside and you polled people, you'd get all kinds of results. But suddenly anthro climate pushers are super sensitive thermometers. They talk about weather events when you try to have a climate discussion all the time. Questioning is science, especially when you can't prove it like the speed of light.

mempko 10y ago

Markets are created by states. Why the indirect route?