4 ms·

Mr. Shaw, i am once again impressed. This is not the first time I've seen Zed Shaw rant about something he dislikes and then goes off and attempts to fix it.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
- nhebb 17y ago
  So far, the exercises do look like their targeted to the total beginner, but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2. I say "so far" in hopes that he eventually gets enough exercises in the book that the material included now is just a small part of the finished work. Doh! VB index alert: The exercises are 0-based and the steps are 1-based. ;-)
  - paulitex 17y ago
    "but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2." Off the top of my head, I know at least 3 Universities (near me in Canada: UBC, SFU, UofC) that have recently switched to Python as the first language taught/used in their CS programs. There is a real demand for intro Python books. And IMHO Python is a pretty good first language.
    - Psyonic 17y ago
      MIT recently switched from Scheme to Python for their intro class
      - grinich 17y ago
        Algorithms is also taught in Python.
      - mhartl 17y ago
        Caltech, too.
    - what 17y ago
      UToronto switched from Java to Python a couple years ago. I wonder what my high school is using, they started us with BASIC, then Java and finally a little C... I was pretty well prepared for first year.
    - cdr 17y ago
      Python really does seem to be a strong contender for the post-Java university language. IIRC they were looking into it at my alma mater.
    - foenix 17y ago
      SFU still requires their students to learn Java. Python is the introductory programming language of choice, and the introductory programming course is centered around it, but it isn't a requirement. (reference: http://www.cs.sfu.ca/undergrad/Advising/programs/majors.html http://www.cs.sfu.ca/undergrad/Advising/programs/majors.html ; I'm also close to the associate dean). That being said, Python is a wonderful language to get started in programming.
    - froo 17y ago
      I think the Head First series is actually quite good for teaching Python as a first language. I recently purchased the Python one (it's just called Head First Programming from memory) for a friend who wanted to start with coding and she picked the basic concepts up pretty quickly.
    - nhebb 17y ago
      So apparently the smart money finds out what I'm betting on and bets the other way. :-)
  - dirkstoop 17y ago
    Re. n>2: Except for some dabling in basic, max/msp and some proprietary scripting stuff, Python was the first language I learned. It was certainly the first one I learned to program in.
  - dandelany 17y ago
    I was taught python in my first programming class. It's a large part of the reason I graduated with Computer Science degree.
  - kmak 17y ago
    A few weeks ago, I finally gave in and tried to learn Python. It is surprisingly easier to learn. From a guy with mostly C and Perl experience, it takes good parts from both. I was writing code in only a few days. It's also easier with StackOverflow and Google, of course!
  - nfnaaron 17y ago
    Anecdote of one, my 12 yo son is learning Python as his first programming language. I just helped him through one of his math homework questions in Python; found a homework error. :)
  - zedshaw 17y ago
    My thinking is actually this: Python is a weird language that sits between C and Smalltalk It has odd idioms from C and strange constructs from Smalltalk which you don't really find in other languages. It's also very easy to type with a lot less "signpost junk" in it. My idea (totally unfounded) is that will make it easier for people to type it in, and also teach them the little secret idioms found in languages on both ends of the spectrum. Also, there will be a few jokes about cardinal vs. ordinal numbers.
  - oops 17y ago
    Coming to Python with previous programming experience, I was impressed by the Google Python Class. It feels like it crammed my usual first few weeks/months of "oh you can do it like that" moments into a couple of hours. Which makes sense as I believe it's what they give to new hires there who don't already know Python. FWIW I didn't watch the videos, I just read over the webpages. http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/ http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/ Looking forward to reading Zed's book too.
zedshaw 17y ago
Thank you. Even though I complain about things, if I think I can fix it I usually do.
projectileboy 17y ago
Agreed. I've whinged about Zed's whinging in the past, but it's another thing to create something. Kudos to Mr. Shaw.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

nhebb 17y ago
So far, the exercises do look like their targeted to the total beginner, but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2. I say "so far" in hopes that he eventually gets enough exercises in the book that the material included now is just a small part of the finished work. Doh! VB index alert: The exercises are 0-based and the steps are 1-based. ;-)
- paulitex 17y ago
  "but my money is that most programmers learn Python as their nth language, where n > 2." Off the top of my head, I know at least 3 Universities (near me in Canada: UBC, SFU, UofC) that have recently switched to Python as the first language taught/used in their CS programs. There is a real demand for intro Python books. And IMHO Python is a pretty good first language.
  - Psyonic 17y ago
    MIT recently switched from Scheme to Python for their intro class
    - grinich 17y ago
      Algorithms is also taught in Python.
    - mhartl 17y ago
      Caltech, too.
  - what 17y ago
    UToronto switched from Java to Python a couple years ago. I wonder what my high school is using, they started us with BASIC, then Java and finally a little C... I was pretty well prepared for first year.
  - cdr 17y ago
    Python really does seem to be a strong contender for the post-Java university language. IIRC they were looking into it at my alma mater.
  - foenix 17y ago
    SFU still requires their students to learn Java. Python is the introductory programming language of choice, and the introductory programming course is centered around it, but it isn't a requirement. (reference: http://www.cs.sfu.ca/undergrad/Advising/programs/majors.html http://www.cs.sfu.ca/undergrad/Advising/programs/majors.html ; I'm also close to the associate dean). That being said, Python is a wonderful language to get started in programming.
  - froo 17y ago
    I think the Head First series is actually quite good for teaching Python as a first language. I recently purchased the Python one (it's just called Head First Programming from memory) for a friend who wanted to start with coding and she picked the basic concepts up pretty quickly.
  - nhebb 17y ago
    So apparently the smart money finds out what I'm betting on and bets the other way. :-)
- dirkstoop 17y ago
  Re. n>2: Except for some dabling in basic, max/msp and some proprietary scripting stuff, Python was the first language I learned. It was certainly the first one I learned to program in.
- dandelany 17y ago
  I was taught python in my first programming class. It's a large part of the reason I graduated with Computer Science degree.
- kmak 17y ago
  A few weeks ago, I finally gave in and tried to learn Python. It is surprisingly easier to learn. From a guy with mostly C and Perl experience, it takes good parts from both. I was writing code in only a few days. It's also easier with StackOverflow and Google, of course!
- nfnaaron 17y ago
  Anecdote of one, my 12 yo son is learning Python as his first programming language. I just helped him through one of his math homework questions in Python; found a homework error. :)
- zedshaw 17y ago
  My thinking is actually this: Python is a weird language that sits between C and Smalltalk It has odd idioms from C and strange constructs from Smalltalk which you don't really find in other languages. It's also very easy to type with a lot less "signpost junk" in it. My idea (totally unfounded) is that will make it easier for people to type it in, and also teach them the little secret idioms found in languages on both ends of the spectrum. Also, there will be a few jokes about cardinal vs. ordinal numbers.
- oops 17y ago
  Coming to Python with previous programming experience, I was impressed by the Google Python Class. It feels like it crammed my usual first few weeks/months of "oh you can do it like that" moments into a couple of hours. Which makes sense as I believe it's what they give to new hires there who don't already know Python. FWIW I didn't watch the videos, I just read over the webpages. http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/ http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/ Looking forward to reading Zed's book too.

zedshaw 17y ago

Thank you. Even though I complain about things, if I think I can fix it I usually do.

projectileboy 17y ago

Agreed. I've whinged about Zed's whinging in the past, but it's another thing to create something. Kudos to Mr. Shaw.