5 ms·

I wonder if the media is incompetent or liars...

chirau 10y ago
they could also be both
tedunangst 10y ago
I'd say once you label all Trump voters deplorable racists, it becomes harder to get people to confess their sins to strangers calling them on the phone.
- ZeroGravitas 10y ago
  Facts are boring I know, but Clinton only labeled half of his supporters as deplorable racists (etc.)
  - tedunangst 10y ago
    Judging by the comments I saw on Facebook and Twitter from Clinton supporters, that's a subtlety that got lost. They were in no particular hurry to clarify it was only half.
at-fates-hands 10y ago
A combination of both really. Sadly, its only going to get worse now.
Lordarminius 10y ago
The media contributed directly to Clintons failure. There was no subtlety in their approach, the message was clearly biased against Trump and collusive with the establishment to push a candidate who was clearly tainted. Had Clinton taken a different more honest approach she would have trounced Trump. As it was, she could not and did not; she is an agent of large corporate interests People dont like being told what to do. They are sick and tired of public servants who have transmogrified into Lord- of-the-Manor type personalities and not just in America. Watch out as more establishment candidates fail across the world in the next couple of years.
sharemywin 10y ago
she won the popular vote so technically the national polls were right.
- Lordarminius 10y ago
  Speaking of that, I read an article recently that seriously questioned the integrity of polls and pollsters. I'll dig it out. But something else: with about a century of polling history my thesis is that wariness has set in and people are playing a more crafty game. They refrain from speaking their minds to pollsters especially if their positions are unpopular or contentious; there is nothing to be gained from honesty to strangers. This is the real cause of poll failures.
- unabst 10y ago
  I'm not sure if democracy failed us by electing the pussy grabber or democracy won by reminding us who we truly are as a whole. After all, we the people voted. But then when I hear the popular vote, I SMH. Hillary should have won if every vote counted equally. It would have been a nail-biter since she re-surged at the end. There should be nothing between each person, their vote and the total count which is the voice of the people. No delegates, no electoral colleges, no State borders, no nothing. Anything else is not a pure democracy. We failed democracy.
  - grzm 10y ago
    Just like any tool, we should adapt it so it works best for us. I don't think pure democracy (where every eligible citizen votes on every single decision) is something that should be held as the goal :) That said, I do think we should take a good solid look at whether the electoral college is really what we want.
    - unabst 10y ago
      > we should adapt it so it works best for us This is the very definition of rigging. The democratic primary was rigged to favor Hillary (the establishment), and Bernie lost. The national election was rigged to "balance" the voice of States and Trump won. That is the only reason. It's also the only reason Bush won in 2000. The system is already adapted so it works best for "us" except where us is these bubbles of people. If we were to make "us" all of us, then what we need is pure democracy. Otherwise it's the Divided States of America. Every election the State borders could not be more prominent.

they could also be both

I'd say once you label all Trump voters deplorable racists, it becomes harder to get people to confess their sins to strangers calling them on the phone.

ZeroGravitas 10y ago
Facts are boring I know, but Clinton only labeled half of his supporters as deplorable racists (etc.)
- tedunangst 10y ago
  Judging by the comments I saw on Facebook and Twitter from Clinton supporters, that's a subtlety that got lost. They were in no particular hurry to clarify it was only half.

at-fates-hands 10y ago

A combination of both really. Sadly, its only going to get worse now.

Lordarminius 10y ago

The media contributed directly to Clintons failure. There was no subtlety in their approach, the message was clearly biased against Trump and collusive with the establishment to push a candidate who was clearly tainted. Had Clinton taken a different more honest approach she would have trounced Trump. As it was, she could not and did not; she is an agent of large corporate interests People dont like being told what to do. They are sick and tired of public servants who have transmogrified into Lord- of-the-Manor type personalities and not just in America. Watch out as more establishment candidates fail across the world in the next couple of years.

sharemywin 10y ago

she won the popular vote so technically the national polls were right.

Lordarminius 10y ago
Speaking of that, I read an article recently that seriously questioned the integrity of polls and pollsters. I'll dig it out. But something else: with about a century of polling history my thesis is that wariness has set in and people are playing a more crafty game. They refrain from speaking their minds to pollsters especially if their positions are unpopular or contentious; there is nothing to be gained from honesty to strangers. This is the real cause of poll failures.
unabst 10y ago
I'm not sure if democracy failed us by electing the pussy grabber or democracy won by reminding us who we truly are as a whole. After all, we the people voted. But then when I hear the popular vote, I SMH. Hillary should have won if every vote counted equally. It would have been a nail-biter since she re-surged at the end. There should be nothing between each person, their vote and the total count which is the voice of the people. No delegates, no electoral colleges, no State borders, no nothing. Anything else is not a pure democracy. We failed democracy.
- grzm 10y ago
  Just like any tool, we should adapt it so it works best for us. I don't think pure democracy (where every eligible citizen votes on every single decision) is something that should be held as the goal :) That said, I do think we should take a good solid look at whether the electoral college is really what we want.
  - unabst 10y ago
    > we should adapt it so it works best for us This is the very definition of rigging. The democratic primary was rigged to favor Hillary (the establishment), and Bernie lost. The national election was rigged to "balance" the voice of States and Trump won. That is the only reason. It's also the only reason Bush won in 2000. The system is already adapted so it works best for "us" except where us is these bubbles of people. If we were to make "us" all of us, then what we need is pure democracy. Otherwise it's the Divided States of America. Every election the State borders could not be more prominent.