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There's was very vocal backlash from some developers. Most professional developers I talked to are perfectly fine with the changes. They just weren't interested

by jkrems 10y ago

There's was very vocal backlash from some developers. Most professional developers I talked to are perfectly fine with the changes. They just weren't interested in taking part in the online drama. Maybe they were slightly annoyed or confused by one change or the other but they still thought the whole package was a good deal. And bought one.

4ad 10y ago
Exactly. I am very happy with the new changes and with the direction Apple is going, but I simply have no interest in arguing with people who are unhappy. Vote with your money, I will buy the new MacBook Pro.
- Certhas 10y ago
  I think that's the thing, there's a bunch of us that have already been getting less happy with Mac OS updates over the years, so MBP was a crystallisation point of that. My next Laptop wont be a Mac in all likelihood, but the MBP changes have little to do with that.
droopyEyelids 10y ago
Was it even developers? Or was it people attempting to create relevant content/build a brand online? I know there is some overlap, but I'm shocked at how credulous HN seems to be in the face of the Internet Outrage Cycle. Every newsworthy event generates a hoard of people that try to cultivate outrage to drive traffic to their site or to gain some recognition. A lot of this is natural, people aren't even cynical about it. But it's useless to pay attention to it.
- alfonsodev 10y ago
  I think they always said "creators"
cstejerean 10y ago
Yep. I actually looked around for alternatives, something that I haven't done in years, but I haven't seen anything else more compelling. If you want a laptop with 16 GB of RAM, HiDPI screen, a discrete GPU and 10 hours of battery life, then there really aren't very many choices. So yeah, the new MacBook Pro still looks like a pretty good options for developers. I am surprised about them dumping MagSafe, because it's a superior power option to USB-C. And it's also surprising that they didn't include at least one USB-A port for compatibility, but that's a minor issue in the grand scheme of things. The touch bar I am actually excited about for what it's worth. There's a lot of developers out there that still use the mouse for a lot of actions in their editor / IDE because they can't be bothered to learn the keyboard shortcuts. When those IDEs start to embrace the TouchBar it will make a lot of their lives easier by surfacing actions like stepping through a debugger, refactoring, etc. So on the whole I really don't see that Apple is abandoning developers. I just look at what Microsoft is doing with the Surface line and I wish that Apple was investing more heavily in the same direction.
- 2muchcoffeeman 10y ago
  I think the new MBP seem expensive like everyone else, it I species out a Lenovo Carbon X1. There was a rebate available at the time. But otherwise the price was pretty much the same ... as usual.
  - cstejerean 10y ago
    It's definitely a bit more expensive, especially if you opt for the 1TB SSD. But the X1 Carbon doesn't have a discrete GPU.
- btym 10y ago
  There is one line of laptops I definitely prefer and highly recommend: the previous generation of the MacBook Pro.
  - ghshephard 10y ago
    The current generation of MacBook Air, with Five (5) Ports (Power, 2xUSB, 1xTB, 1xSD), not including the mic is pretty good value as well for a certain group of people who use a lot of connected devices in the field. I have zero reservations about recommending the i5 1.6Ghz w/8GB to anybody but the most demanding professional, who probably already knows they want something different.
qyv 10y ago
I would be surprised if most of the vocal ones didn't still go out and buy one... As someone who has been on MBP's for the last 7 years I recently jumped ship for 15" Dell XPS with Windows 10 and I am happy I did. However, that is because to me Win10 is now way more appealing than OSX. I hadn't updated OSX since Mavericks because there were exactly 0 new features that interested me. I don't have an iPhone/iPad/iEtc and I don't use the built-in OSX apps and it honestly seems like those two thing are all that Apple has cared about with OSX in recent years. It wasn't easy to find a laptop with hardware that is acceptable coming from an MBP, it was a short list. But OS wise, Windows 10.1607 is, for me, way better than OSX at this point. IMO OSX feels dated, and toy-like compared to what Win10 has become. I was a heavy terminal user in OSX, like many dev's it was the *nix part of OSX that got me. But now with both the updated command prompt and WSL I don't miss the terminal, period. Also, Win10 virtual desktops already work better than OSX!
- EugeneOZ 10y ago
  One month ago I bought gaming PC with Windows 10 for my son and I helped him to install some programs and games. After 3 years of exclusive usage of OS X, my first impression of modern Windows 10 was "hm, it looks great even on 4K monitor (UI scaled well), takes few seconds to load and works fine - maybe I should try it again". Only annoying thing I found is extreme level of espionage in OS and fact that sometimes Windows will install updates and reboot even if I don't want it.
josefdlange 10y ago
This! I mean, it's not full of every feature and every performance optimization, but you know what? It is still the best tool for the job.
pavel_lishin 10y ago
"The best deal available" isn't necessarily "the best possible deal".
joeblau 10y ago
I agree. I'm actually totally fine with the changes. The only thing I need to do is get a USB-C to lighting connecter so I can build code on the go and I'll be fine. I do feel this is a transition, but Apple has always been out in front willing to make the tough decision to force it's customers to move.
- apetrovic 10y ago
  Probably the easiest lighting solution is to use the existing cable with USB C to USB A adapter (couple $ on Amazon)
  - joeblau 10y ago
    Yeah. I just bought an iMac earlier this year - Top CPU specs updated to 64GB of ram so I mostly just develop on that and it's got 4 USB-A ports. I'll probably stick with that until the spring version of the rMBP is released.
sowhatquestion 10y ago
> Most professional developers I talked to are perfectly fine with the changes. They just weren't interested in taking part in the online drama. You just described my reaction to every single MBP thread I've seen since the announcement. Not only did I not want to participate in the drama, I have a feeling that a fair number of people who did will turn around and buy an MBP anyway. People are risk-averse and howl indiscriminately when things change. Let's hear about some real experiences of developers having problems using it, then it may be legitimate to revisit the issue
- sulam 10y ago
  I bought one. The dongle situation will be annoying for a while, and I don't know what my hybrid options will be when I get my first USB-C monitor. Hopefully it will have a thunderbolt 2 port for my older computers that I'm at Apple's mercy with (the Mac Pro being the primary example, but also the iMac). Otherwise, it looks like a solid upgrade. I don't need the battery life and would prefer to trade it for 32GB, but I understand why they made that decision.
- blahfuk 10y ago
  I'm not enthused about the touchbar and price increase, but I'll reluctantly buy one anyway because macos is still the best OS available, and the touchpad and gestures actually work. I could give two shits about thinness, dongles, and slick-looking aluminum bodies. If Windows ever gets good gesture support, working virtual screens, non-wonky hiDpi support, and a comparable trackpad, I'll switch immediately.
alanfranzoni 10y ago
Most professional developers have simply no choice if they don't work with Windows. I've been investigating a current Linux laptop that is not too heavy and supports external 4k monitors over dp 1.2 - no luck. Most modern models (e.g. dell xps 13 and 15) struggle with the USB-C alternate mode for displayport, and DP-provided models (e.g. xps 9343) are not on sale anymore. Not to say that external monitor support in Linux, especially Ubuntu, is terrible: try using a 4k monitor along with a non-4k monitor. It will simply create so many issues that, in the end, you'll open your wallet and get a Macbook Pro. I've just bought a 2015 15-inch.
- herbst 10y ago
  I guess you tried it with Unity then. Monitor support and how it feels strongly depends on the Desktop environment used. I never had a issue with Gnome Shell or even Fluxbox, it is even way less of a pain than the crazy bugs OSX seems to have with multi monitor setups.
- soyiuz 10y ago
  Running Linux. I don't have a 4k monitor, but multiple monitors are trivial to set up and automate with XRANDR. In addition, window managers like I3 allow for fully customizable, keyboard-driven navigation between screens and windows. Not saying there are no problems, but once you figure things out the setup is much more extensible than what I was experiencing on Windows previously (former Windows dev here).
  - hultner 10y ago
    Mixed HiDPI with regular resolutions are horrible in Linux, I use it daily and probably tried most DE's and WM's, problem is that it will either look bad on the HiDPI-monitors or the standard ones. The resolution to dot independence in OS X is probably one of the strongest features today, especially paired with quick resolution switchers.

by jkrems 10y ago

4ad 10y ago

Exactly. I am very happy with the new changes and with the direction Apple is going, but I simply have no interest in arguing with people who are unhappy. Vote with your money, I will buy the new MacBook Pro.

Certhas 10y ago
I think that's the thing, there's a bunch of us that have already been getting less happy with Mac OS updates over the years, so MBP was a crystallisation point of that. My next Laptop wont be a Mac in all likelihood, but the MBP changes have little to do with that.

droopyEyelids 10y ago

Was it even developers? Or was it people attempting to create relevant content/build a brand online? I know there is some overlap, but I'm shocked at how credulous HN seems to be in the face of the Internet Outrage Cycle. Every newsworthy event generates a hoard of people that try to cultivate outrage to drive traffic to their site or to gain some recognition. A lot of this is natural, people aren't even cynical about it. But it's useless to pay attention to it.

alfonsodev 10y ago
I think they always said "creators"

cstejerean 10y ago

Yep. I actually looked around for alternatives, something that I haven't done in years, but I haven't seen anything else more compelling. If you want a laptop with 16 GB of RAM, HiDPI screen, a discrete GPU and 10 hours of battery life, then there really aren't very many choices. So yeah, the new MacBook Pro still looks like a pretty good options for developers. I am surprised about them dumping MagSafe, because it's a superior power option to USB-C. And it's also surprising that they didn't include at least one USB-A port for compatibility, but that's a minor issue in the grand scheme of things. The touch bar I am actually excited about for what it's worth. There's a lot of developers out there that still use the mouse for a lot of actions in their editor / IDE because they can't be bothered to learn the keyboard shortcuts. When those IDEs start to embrace the TouchBar it will make a lot of their lives easier by surfacing actions like stepping through a debugger, refactoring, etc. So on the whole I really don't see that Apple is abandoning developers. I just look at what Microsoft is doing with the Surface line and I wish that Apple was investing more heavily in the same direction.

2muchcoffeeman 10y ago
I think the new MBP seem expensive like everyone else, it I species out a Lenovo Carbon X1. There was a rebate available at the time. But otherwise the price was pretty much the same ... as usual.
- cstejerean 10y ago
  It's definitely a bit more expensive, especially if you opt for the 1TB SSD. But the X1 Carbon doesn't have a discrete GPU.
btym 10y ago
There is one line of laptops I definitely prefer and highly recommend: the previous generation of the MacBook Pro.
- ghshephard 10y ago
  The current generation of MacBook Air, with Five (5) Ports (Power, 2xUSB, 1xTB, 1xSD), not including the mic is pretty good value as well for a certain group of people who use a lot of connected devices in the field. I have zero reservations about recommending the i5 1.6Ghz w/8GB to anybody but the most demanding professional, who probably already knows they want something different.

qyv 10y ago

I would be surprised if most of the vocal ones didn't still go out and buy one... As someone who has been on MBP's for the last 7 years I recently jumped ship for 15" Dell XPS with Windows 10 and I am happy I did. However, that is because to me Win10 is now way more appealing than OSX. I hadn't updated OSX since Mavericks because there were exactly 0 new features that interested me. I don't have an iPhone/iPad/iEtc and I don't use the built-in OSX apps and it honestly seems like those two thing are all that Apple has cared about with OSX in recent years. It wasn't easy to find a laptop with hardware that is acceptable coming from an MBP, it was a short list. But OS wise, Windows 10.1607 is, for me, way better than OSX at this point. IMO OSX feels dated, and toy-like compared to what Win10 has become. I was a heavy terminal user in OSX, like many dev's it was the *nix part of OSX that got me. But now with both the updated command prompt and WSL I don't miss the terminal, period. Also, Win10 virtual desktops already work better than OSX!

EugeneOZ 10y ago
One month ago I bought gaming PC with Windows 10 for my son and I helped him to install some programs and games. After 3 years of exclusive usage of OS X, my first impression of modern Windows 10 was "hm, it looks great even on 4K monitor (UI scaled well), takes few seconds to load and works fine - maybe I should try it again". Only annoying thing I found is extreme level of espionage in OS and fact that sometimes Windows will install updates and reboot even if I don't want it.

josefdlange 10y ago

This! I mean, it's not full of every feature and every performance optimization, but you know what? It is still the best tool for the job.

pavel_lishin 10y ago

"The best deal available" isn't necessarily "the best possible deal".

joeblau 10y ago

I agree. I'm actually totally fine with the changes. The only thing I need to do is get a USB-C to lighting connecter so I can build code on the go and I'll be fine. I do feel this is a transition, but Apple has always been out in front willing to make the tough decision to force it's customers to move.

apetrovic 10y ago
Probably the easiest lighting solution is to use the existing cable with USB C to USB A adapter (couple $ on Amazon)
- joeblau 10y ago
  Yeah. I just bought an iMac earlier this year - Top CPU specs updated to 64GB of ram so I mostly just develop on that and it's got 4 USB-A ports. I'll probably stick with that until the spring version of the rMBP is released.

sowhatquestion 10y ago

> Most professional developers I talked to are perfectly fine with the changes. They just weren't interested in taking part in the online drama. You just described my reaction to every single MBP thread I've seen since the announcement. Not only did I not want to participate in the drama, I have a feeling that a fair number of people who did will turn around and buy an MBP anyway. People are risk-averse and howl indiscriminately when things change. Let's hear about some real experiences of developers having problems using it, then it may be legitimate to revisit the issue

sulam 10y ago
I bought one. The dongle situation will be annoying for a while, and I don't know what my hybrid options will be when I get my first USB-C monitor. Hopefully it will have a thunderbolt 2 port for my older computers that I'm at Apple's mercy with (the Mac Pro being the primary example, but also the iMac). Otherwise, it looks like a solid upgrade. I don't need the battery life and would prefer to trade it for 32GB, but I understand why they made that decision.
blahfuk 10y ago
I'm not enthused about the touchbar and price increase, but I'll reluctantly buy one anyway because macos is still the best OS available, and the touchpad and gestures actually work. I could give two shits about thinness, dongles, and slick-looking aluminum bodies. If Windows ever gets good gesture support, working virtual screens, non-wonky hiDpi support, and a comparable trackpad, I'll switch immediately.

alanfranzoni 10y ago

Most professional developers have simply no choice if they don't work with Windows. I've been investigating a current Linux laptop that is not too heavy and supports external 4k monitors over dp 1.2 - no luck. Most modern models (e.g. dell xps 13 and 15) struggle with the USB-C alternate mode for displayport, and DP-provided models (e.g. xps 9343) are not on sale anymore. Not to say that external monitor support in Linux, especially Ubuntu, is terrible: try using a 4k monitor along with a non-4k monitor. It will simply create so many issues that, in the end, you'll open your wallet and get a Macbook Pro. I've just bought a 2015 15-inch.

herbst 10y ago
I guess you tried it with Unity then. Monitor support and how it feels strongly depends on the Desktop environment used. I never had a issue with Gnome Shell or even Fluxbox, it is even way less of a pain than the crazy bugs OSX seems to have with multi monitor setups.
soyiuz 10y ago
Running Linux. I don't have a 4k monitor, but multiple monitors are trivial to set up and automate with XRANDR. In addition, window managers like I3 allow for fully customizable, keyboard-driven navigation between screens and windows. Not saying there are no problems, but once you figure things out the setup is much more extensible than what I was experiencing on Windows previously (former Windows dev here).
- hultner 10y ago
  Mixed HiDPI with regular resolutions are horrible in Linux, I use it daily and probably tried most DE's and WM's, problem is that it will either look bad on the HiDPI-monitors or the standard ones. The resolution to dot independence in OS X is probably one of the strongest features today, especially paired with quick resolution switchers.