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I think the question is what it means to be American. To me, it means living and let living, and to accept others no matter who or what they are. To others, it

by mkaziz 10y ago

I think the question is what it means to be American. To me, it means living and let living, and to accept others no matter who or what they are. To others, it means to be white and Christian.

shawndumas 10y ago
That's exactly the current, default, ungenerous, belittling view held by democrats. How did that work out? If you cannot understand them you cannot help them see why Trump is a bad idea. It seems to me that you've dismissed them, having never thought to put yourself in their shoes; the shoes of the factory worker. Michael Moore has friends that he likes, that he thinks are good people--not ignorant racists--that voted for Trump and instead of closing his mind to them he's tried to understand >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY-CiPVo_NQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY-CiPVo_NQ Maybe you should too...
- mkaziz 10y ago
  I mean, as a (legal) immigrant it's hard to believe that that's not the case, when I've been shouted at in the streets and told to go home to my country. Or when my (American born and bred) wife has been heckled for daring to show up wearing a hijab at an Indiana primary by white folks wearing Trump gear. I'm sure there are a lot of good people who voted Trump, but a whole lot of wicked people who threaten me and mine's existence in this country did too.
  - shawndumas 10y ago
    Nothing I said should leave you believing that some of Trump's supporters aren't xenophobic assholes. But to now extrapolate from that to imagining that 47% of Americans voted for Trump because they are xenophobic assholes is not going to be a winning strategy.
    - mkaziz 10y ago
      Right, and I didn't say you said that, nor did I say that all 47% of those Americans are xenophobes. I just said that there are enough who are to make living here uncomfortable for us, even though in all other respects we love this country and would love to spend our lives here.
      - shawndumas 10y ago
        So, let me be more explicit... Stop talking about racism/xenophobia in relation to Trump's being elected. You cannot win the ~90% of Trump supporters by linking them with the ~10% of his supporters that are disgusting low lifes. You are distracting people from solving the problem.
        mkaziz 10y ago
        It's a legitimate concern that I have that needs to be solved - the fact is that a whole lot of those people who are low-lives have found validation for their perspective with the Trump election. That is a concern for me and my family; I don't feel happy about the fact that my kids will go to school with other kids bullying them and echoing racist crap because the Commander in Chief does so, or because he implies that people from my part of the world are bad. I can't just not bring these concerns up because you think that detracts from the grander scheme of fixing the Trump supporters' problems. Seems to me like you are disregarding my concerns in the same way you're accusing me of disregarding Trump supporters' concerns.
        shawndumas 10y ago
        I agree with you. I am going beyond what I agree with. My statement is a strict super-set of your's. Yes, Trump is a morally repugnant person. Yes, he has supporters that are as well. Yes, you should be concerned about both of those issues. Now, while remaining concerned, let's talk; do you think lambasting 47% of voters--some of whom are (by your own admission) not intrinsically, categorically, irrecoverably, lost--is a good or bad strategy towards avoiding another Trump?

by mkaziz 10y ago

I think the question is what it means to be American. To me, it means living and let living, and to accept others no matter who or what they are. To others, it means to be white and Christian.

shawndumas 10y ago

That's exactly the current, default, ungenerous, belittling view held by democrats. How did that work out? If you cannot understand them you cannot help them see why Trump is a bad idea. It seems to me that you've dismissed them, having never thought to put yourself in their shoes; the shoes of the factory worker. Michael Moore has friends that he likes, that he thinks are good people--not ignorant racists--that voted for Trump and instead of closing his mind to them he's tried to understand >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY-CiPVo_NQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY-CiPVo_NQ Maybe you should too...

mkaziz 10y ago
I mean, as a (legal) immigrant it's hard to believe that that's not the case, when I've been shouted at in the streets and told to go home to my country. Or when my (American born and bred) wife has been heckled for daring to show up wearing a hijab at an Indiana primary by white folks wearing Trump gear. I'm sure there are a lot of good people who voted Trump, but a whole lot of wicked people who threaten me and mine's existence in this country did too.
- shawndumas 10y ago
  Nothing I said should leave you believing that some of Trump's supporters aren't xenophobic assholes. But to now extrapolate from that to imagining that 47% of Americans voted for Trump because they are xenophobic assholes is not going to be a winning strategy.
  - mkaziz 10y ago
    Right, and I didn't say you said that, nor did I say that all 47% of those Americans are xenophobes. I just said that there are enough who are to make living here uncomfortable for us, even though in all other respects we love this country and would love to spend our lives here.
    - shawndumas 10y ago
      So, let me be more explicit... Stop talking about racism/xenophobia in relation to Trump's being elected. You cannot win the ~90% of Trump supporters by linking them with the ~10% of his supporters that are disgusting low lifes. You are distracting people from solving the problem.
      - mkaziz 10y ago
        It's a legitimate concern that I have that needs to be solved - the fact is that a whole lot of those people who are low-lives have found validation for their perspective with the Trump election. That is a concern for me and my family; I don't feel happy about the fact that my kids will go to school with other kids bullying them and echoing racist crap because the Commander in Chief does so, or because he implies that people from my part of the world are bad. I can't just not bring these concerns up because you think that detracts from the grander scheme of fixing the Trump supporters' problems. Seems to me like you are disregarding my concerns in the same way you're accusing me of disregarding Trump supporters' concerns.
        shawndumas 10y ago
        I agree with you. I am going beyond what I agree with. My statement is a strict super-set of your's. Yes, Trump is a morally repugnant person. Yes, he has supporters that are as well. Yes, you should be concerned about both of those issues. Now, while remaining concerned, let's talk; do you think lambasting 47% of voters--some of whom are (by your own admission) not intrinsically, categorically, irrecoverably, lost--is a good or bad strategy towards avoiding another Trump?