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I think we learned that fake news (used to pump up fake issues) is now a legitimate campaign strategy that works even on people who should know better. Trump w

I think we learned that fake news (used to pump up fake issues) is now a legitimate campaign strategy that works even on people who should know better. Trump won on a mountain of fake issues: Immigration: both conservative and liberal economists agree that immigration (illegal or otherwise) does not suppress wages and does not suppress job growth. https://www.cato.org/research/immigration https://www.cato.org/research/immigration http://business.time.com/2013/01/30/the-economics-of-immigration-who-wins-who-loses-and-why/ http://business.time.com/2013/01/30/the-economics-of-immigra... Terrorism: more toddlers killed Americans than terrorists in 2015. For every terrorist killing someone on US soil, more than 4000 Americans killed each other. http://www.snopes.com/toddlers-killed-americans-terrorists/ http://www.snopes.com/toddlers-killed-americans-terrorists/ http://tinyurl.com/q3fqk69 http://tinyurl.com/q3fqk69 Gay marriage: All it does is extend the same legal protections to people of the same sex that was already available to people of opposite sex. It doesn't take away any rights from anybody. Who is using the bathroom: Historically virtually no jurisdictions have had laws in place to prevent men from entering ladies rooms or vice versa. There have been male registered sex offenders entering the bathroom with yours sons since time immemorial. Transgendered people are no more likely to be sex offenders than the general population. Obamacare: While the program has its problems, the Trump administration will do nothing to address them and has said it will double-down on aspects that will make our health care system worse. I could go on but this is plenty. Welcome to the post-factual political America.

vsl 10y ago
Funny, I'd think the lesson is that near-total mainstream propaganda actually generates pushback. See also: Britain, Germany (where press in universally suppresses and labels any opposition as "neofascist"). Also consider the possibility that many people voted not for Trump, but against Clinton and her fake issues (like the discredited wage gap myth).
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  The wage gap hasn't been discredited. Science shows it is there. Much of the variance is unexplained. And some of the "explanations" of variance that has been accounted for are themselves sexist. If job titles women tend to have get paid less than job titles men tend to have, that means we value women's work less than men's. Your assumption is that work must be worth objectively less, but the only proof we have for that is "the market said so" which I find unconvincing.
eranation 10y ago
Welcome to America where the news are fake and polls don't matter.
sonthonax 10y ago
> I think we learned that fake news (used to pump up fake issues) is now a legitimate campaign strategy that works even on people who should know better. This, I think was the real genius of Trump's campaign. One role a journalist has in an open society to objectively seek the truth. I feel that Trump effectively defeated journalism through an utter disregard for it. Putin does the same.
- rstupek 10y ago
  Which objective journalists are you thinking of? Wikileaks showed how many of these journalists were colluding with Hillary
thomyorkie 10y ago
> Terrorism: more toddlers killed Americans than terrorists in 2015. For every terrorist killing someone on US soil, more than 4000 Americans killed each other. Terrorism isn't a fake issue. You're ignoring the potential devastating effects that a successful terrorist attack on U.S. soil could have. Terrorists are always trying to up their game and its because of this that they represent a significant threat. Toddlers, and homicidal fellow Americans, represent a fairly fixed threat compared to the unknown possibilities of terrorists (for example a chemical or nuclear weapon released in NYC).
- gwbas1c 10y ago
  Terrorism isn't about an attack, it's about fear. When we sacrifice our freedoms to live in fear of terrorists, they win.
  - thomyorkie 10y ago
    Freedoms and proactive steps to mitigate an attack are not mutually exclusive.
    - esrauch 10y ago
      I think the proactive steps that aren't at the expense of freedoms aren't the ones that are controversial.
      - lliamander 10y ago
        Like right to bear arms?
        esrauch 10y ago
        Restricting gun availability is a proactive step against terrorism reduces freedoms that is controversial.
        10y ago
lucasmullens 10y ago
"Fake issues" is a weird way to describe issues like universal healthcare and gay marriage that have been debated for decades. Half the country is on the other side of many of these issues, so I wouldn't call them fake.
- mulletbum 10y ago
  I think he means, it isn't an issue that they will address. It is a built up for election sake, but will be ignored otherwise.
mitochondrion 10y ago
Immigration isn't a fake issue. Take a walk around Miami or San Diego. Or New York. Or London. Or Paris. Or Malmö. Gay marriage is just the final nail in the coffin of marriage, which was already basically dead. It's a mind-bogglingly stupid hill to die on, but nobody ever accused conservatives of brilliance. Obamacare is a disaster because it enables still more people to suck still more dollars out of the system than there are people putting dollars into the system. The people getting more than they put in are parasites; the people getting less than they put in are suckers. When you don't pay for your own healthcare, you don't care how much it costs. Go to any veterinarian's office to see the cost of medicine in a free market.
- dmode 10y ago
  I literally spend last weekend in San Diego and saw a very dynamic and happy place. What are you on about ?
  - devrelm 10y ago
    Yeah, I work every day in New York. I have no idea what this guy is talking about.
    - dopamean 10y ago
      This is the standard thing that xenophobes do when talking about how bad immigration is. They tell someone to take a loot at X. Where X is a place the listener probably hasn't been to and doesn't really know anything about. It's like if I was talking to a bunch of factory workers in Kentucky about how bad marijuana is and said "just take a look at Holland!" They'd have no fucking idea what it's like in Holland but someone claiming to be an authority just told them the situation was concerning.
      - praneshp 10y ago
        Step 0: Stop calling him a Xenophobe because he said something you don't agree with, or he said something wrong.
lliamander 10y ago
What do you mean by "fake" issues? Do you mean "issues where there is no disagreement" or "issues where I don't perceive any reasonable disagreement"? The former is a reasonable definition of fake issues, so that's the one I'll use. > Immigration If conservative and liberal economists agree, then this is the only issue that qualifies as "fake" by the above definition I mentioned. However, I don't think that the Cato position represents a right-wing consensus. > Terrorism You're not employing the statistics you cited correctly. First, terrorist attacks are black swans[0]. Saying that terrorism killed very few this year or even past ten years is misleading at best. Second, most of those firearm deaths are suicides. Certainly sad and need to be addressed, but also dishonest to compare directly against terrorist attacks and using the word "deaths" to obscure the difference between suicide and murder rates. > Gay Marriage May be clear cut to you, but is still contentious within the broader population and therefore not a fake issue. Also, there has certainly been conflicts with freedom of association. You can claim that restricting those rights is worth it, but you cannot claim they are not being restricted. There's also plenty to criticize in the legal reasoning behind the supreme court ruling. > Bathrooms Who uses what bathroom has largely been a matter of culture and custom. You can claim that such customs are wrong and need to be changed, but if you mandate that change through law and you are going to have a bad time. > Obamacare Not a fake issue. [0]http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/08/31/terrorists-vs-chairs-an-outlier-story/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/08/31/terrorists-vs-chairs-an...

vsl 10y ago

Funny, I'd think the lesson is that near-total mainstream propaganda actually generates pushback. See also: Britain, Germany (where press in universally suppresses and labels any opposition as "neofascist"). Also consider the possibility that many people voted not for Trump, but against Clinton and her fake issues (like the discredited wage gap myth).

erikpukinskis 10y ago
The wage gap hasn't been discredited. Science shows it is there. Much of the variance is unexplained. And some of the "explanations" of variance that has been accounted for are themselves sexist. If job titles women tend to have get paid less than job titles men tend to have, that means we value women's work less than men's. Your assumption is that work must be worth objectively less, but the only proof we have for that is "the market said so" which I find unconvincing.

eranation 10y ago

Welcome to America where the news are fake and polls don't matter.

sonthonax 10y ago

> I think we learned that fake news (used to pump up fake issues) is now a legitimate campaign strategy that works even on people who should know better. This, I think was the real genius of Trump's campaign. One role a journalist has in an open society to objectively seek the truth. I feel that Trump effectively defeated journalism through an utter disregard for it. Putin does the same.

rstupek 10y ago
Which objective journalists are you thinking of? Wikileaks showed how many of these journalists were colluding with Hillary

thomyorkie 10y ago

> Terrorism: more toddlers killed Americans than terrorists in 2015. For every terrorist killing someone on US soil, more than 4000 Americans killed each other. Terrorism isn't a fake issue. You're ignoring the potential devastating effects that a successful terrorist attack on U.S. soil could have. Terrorists are always trying to up their game and its because of this that they represent a significant threat. Toddlers, and homicidal fellow Americans, represent a fairly fixed threat compared to the unknown possibilities of terrorists (for example a chemical or nuclear weapon released in NYC).

gwbas1c 10y ago
Terrorism isn't about an attack, it's about fear. When we sacrifice our freedoms to live in fear of terrorists, they win.
- thomyorkie 10y ago
  Freedoms and proactive steps to mitigate an attack are not mutually exclusive.
  - esrauch 10y ago
    I think the proactive steps that aren't at the expense of freedoms aren't the ones that are controversial.
    - lliamander 10y ago
      Like right to bear arms?
      - esrauch 10y ago
        Restricting gun availability is a proactive step against terrorism reduces freedoms that is controversial.
        10y ago

lucasmullens 10y ago

"Fake issues" is a weird way to describe issues like universal healthcare and gay marriage that have been debated for decades. Half the country is on the other side of many of these issues, so I wouldn't call them fake.

mulletbum 10y ago
I think he means, it isn't an issue that they will address. It is a built up for election sake, but will be ignored otherwise.

mitochondrion 10y ago

Immigration isn't a fake issue. Take a walk around Miami or San Diego. Or New York. Or London. Or Paris. Or Malmö. Gay marriage is just the final nail in the coffin of marriage, which was already basically dead. It's a mind-bogglingly stupid hill to die on, but nobody ever accused conservatives of brilliance. Obamacare is a disaster because it enables still more people to suck still more dollars out of the system than there are people putting dollars into the system. The people getting more than they put in are parasites; the people getting less than they put in are suckers. When you don't pay for your own healthcare, you don't care how much it costs. Go to any veterinarian's office to see the cost of medicine in a free market.

dmode 10y ago
I literally spend last weekend in San Diego and saw a very dynamic and happy place. What are you on about ?
- devrelm 10y ago
  Yeah, I work every day in New York. I have no idea what this guy is talking about.
  - dopamean 10y ago
    This is the standard thing that xenophobes do when talking about how bad immigration is. They tell someone to take a loot at X. Where X is a place the listener probably hasn't been to and doesn't really know anything about. It's like if I was talking to a bunch of factory workers in Kentucky about how bad marijuana is and said "just take a look at Holland!" They'd have no fucking idea what it's like in Holland but someone claiming to be an authority just told them the situation was concerning.
    - praneshp 10y ago
      Step 0: Stop calling him a Xenophobe because he said something you don't agree with, or he said something wrong.

lliamander 10y ago

What do you mean by "fake" issues? Do you mean "issues where there is no disagreement" or "issues where I don't perceive any reasonable disagreement"? The former is a reasonable definition of fake issues, so that's the one I'll use. > Immigration If conservative and liberal economists agree, then this is the only issue that qualifies as "fake" by the above definition I mentioned. However, I don't think that the Cato position represents a right-wing consensus. > Terrorism You're not employing the statistics you cited correctly. First, terrorist attacks are black swans[0]. Saying that terrorism killed very few this year or even past ten years is misleading at best. Second, most of those firearm deaths are suicides. Certainly sad and need to be addressed, but also dishonest to compare directly against terrorist attacks and using the word "deaths" to obscure the difference between suicide and murder rates. > Gay Marriage May be clear cut to you, but is still contentious within the broader population and therefore not a fake issue. Also, there has certainly been conflicts with freedom of association. You can claim that restricting those rights is worth it, but you cannot claim they are not being restricted. There's also plenty to criticize in the legal reasoning behind the supreme court ruling. > Bathrooms Who uses what bathroom has largely been a matter of culture and custom. You can claim that such customs are wrong and need to be changed, but if you mandate that change through law and you are going to have a bad time. > Obamacare Not a fake issue. [0]http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/08/31/terrorists-vs-chairs-an-outlier-story/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/08/31/terrorists-vs-chairs-an...