6 ms·

How exactly does one PM here?

by Klover 10y ago

md_ 10y ago
Yeah, I'm happy to chat, actually, but...PM? Er, is there a PM function I didn't notice?
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  Whoops. For some reason I thought there was a PM function on this site, I guess I was wrong. Is there anything specific you'd like answered, or just my general opinions on the situation?
  - md_ 10y ago
    Hmm. My starting question in most cases has been, "What are the top reasons you think Trump is a good choice to be President, preferably without making it a negative argument about the opposition?"
    - jimmywanger 10y ago
      There are a couple good reasons. Would like you to add your input here also. 1) Trump is easier to predict than Hillary. Based on a bunch of the email leaks and leaks about the Clinton foundation, she's getting lots of money from foreign countries, which might cause her to make decisions that are bad for the United States for reasons unknown to me. Trump likes power and money. I can understand those motivations and can work with them. 2) Clinton is generally a lot more hawkish than Trump. Forgive me for being crude, but I'd rather Trump grab hundreds of p*ssies than engage in sabre rattling with Putin. She has promised to retaliate against Russia with no definitive proof that it was Russian hackers or Russian attempts to monkey with the election. Trump on the other hand wants to make friends with Putin, and he has said that North Korea is China's problem, which I think is a really good way of dealing with the situation. Especially since Russia has just debuted an ICBM called the "Satan 2", which is able to destroy either Texas or France with just one missile. 3) Trump is against illegal immigration. A lot of people tend to think of the wall as a literal proposal, instead of just a metaphor of making illegal immigration more difficult. Trump has indicated recently that he wants to restrict deportations to illegal immigrants who commit crimes in the US, which seems eminently fair to me. Hillary doesn't really have as much of an answer except for sweeping amnesties. 4) LGBT issues. Trump took a lot of flak for supporting LGBT people from the republican party. He also proposes restricting immigration and "extreme vetting" from the countries that tend to export people who believe in sharia law and stone homosexuals and rape victims. I think it's ridiculous that we're up in arms about bathrooms in North Carolina, while one of the major candidates in our party gets millions from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. And one last point, which might count me as running down the other party. I just don't like Clinton supporters. They're really shrill and righteous, and if you don't agree with them on everything you're automatically a racist and a bigot. It's difficult having a civil discussion with them, and I don't want to put myself in the same camp as them. Also, they're incredibly histrionic. "Trump is literally Hitler" and "I'm moving to Canada/Europe." And the best is "I can't believe half of this country is populated by xenophobic racist bigots. If you support Trump I want nothing to do with you." Last I checked, calling people names is not a good way to rally support to your cause.
      - dtien 10y ago
        Thanks for your response, I'm not the OP but I'm similarly trying to understand the reasons for Trump. My personal belief ( and talking with some of my own circle of friends that supported him ) leads me to believe it's a few thing: 1) the tough talking, america first attitude. I think this attracted a number of people simply due to the 'feeling' it gave them. 2) the desire for change. anti-establishment, anti-washington, anti-'what was before'. this was seen in Bernie's rise, and Brexit. so it almost didn't matter what Trump did or say at that point, he was the messenger of change and people were hungry for it. 3) blue collar workers & economy. If you feel like you've been left behind, and the govt isn't helping, well Trump's message definitely resonated better than HC. So those are a bit of what I'm sensing at this early stage of my understanding. I'm sure more will reveal itself throughout the coming days, months, years. However, to your specific points as to why you supported Trump: 1) Trump is easier to predict? I find this truly hard to believe. He is almost entirely unpredictable at this point. He ran on the Republican ticket, but he's hardly your standard Republican. He says he's not free trade, yet wants to do things to help big business, yet wants to impose huge tariffs and taxes on businesses that outsource and offshore to save money. IMO, these are somewhat contradictory. I honestly feel like Trump just echo'ed the anger of a certain group in the country, regardless of what he personally believes, or thinks he can implement. So on the case of predictable, I disagree strongly. 2) Clinton has been hawkish in the past, and generally leans towards US intervention, I'll give you that. However, there are also examples of her using actual diplomacy to achieve results ( Iran deal, like it or not ). Trump has said some really outlandish things as it comes to foreign policy. Encouraging the proliferation of nuclear weapons, abandoning our allies, letting certain parts of the world fend for themselves. I personally think there's a fine balance between being imperialistic and trying to keep the world peace. To say it's China's problem to deal with North Korea, so South Korea/Japan/Taiwan can go fend for themselves is a very narrow view of the world. I think this type of inward behavior actually leads to bigger/larger potential wars down the road. 3. Illegal immigration, OK clearly he built his platform on this. But this is again an issue where nothing with him is clear. He never presented a clear proposal no what he intends to do on immigration besides being tough and building a wall. And to say HC wants sweeping amnesty is inflaming and misleading the debate rather than moving it forward. 4. This is just strange to use this as a reason for Trump. I mean he said a couple things on LGBT, but if you follow this through his SCOTUS noms will play a huge role on the rights and privileges of that demographic going forward. I certainly am not trying to bash your entire premise for Trump, like I said in the beginning I am trying and reading to understand his rise, and some of it is becoming apparent. And I do hope he leads from the center and backs away from his more extreme views. And I do hope he succeeds as a president. But I am honestly confused by some of your points, as much as they might match with his campaign rhetoric, they do seem to crumble upon examination.

How exactly does one PM here?

by Klover 10y ago

How exactly does one PM here?

md_ 10y ago

Yeah, I'm happy to chat, actually, but...PM? Er, is there a PM function I didn't notice?

jimmywanger 10y ago
Whoops. For some reason I thought there was a PM function on this site, I guess I was wrong. Is there anything specific you'd like answered, or just my general opinions on the situation?
- md_ 10y ago
  Hmm. My starting question in most cases has been, "What are the top reasons you think Trump is a good choice to be President, preferably without making it a negative argument about the opposition?"
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    There are a couple good reasons. Would like you to add your input here also. 1) Trump is easier to predict than Hillary. Based on a bunch of the email leaks and leaks about the Clinton foundation, she's getting lots of money from foreign countries, which might cause her to make decisions that are bad for the United States for reasons unknown to me. Trump likes power and money. I can understand those motivations and can work with them. 2) Clinton is generally a lot more hawkish than Trump. Forgive me for being crude, but I'd rather Trump grab hundreds of p*ssies than engage in sabre rattling with Putin. She has promised to retaliate against Russia with no definitive proof that it was Russian hackers or Russian attempts to monkey with the election. Trump on the other hand wants to make friends with Putin, and he has said that North Korea is China's problem, which I think is a really good way of dealing with the situation. Especially since Russia has just debuted an ICBM called the "Satan 2", which is able to destroy either Texas or France with just one missile. 3) Trump is against illegal immigration. A lot of people tend to think of the wall as a literal proposal, instead of just a metaphor of making illegal immigration more difficult. Trump has indicated recently that he wants to restrict deportations to illegal immigrants who commit crimes in the US, which seems eminently fair to me. Hillary doesn't really have as much of an answer except for sweeping amnesties. 4) LGBT issues. Trump took a lot of flak for supporting LGBT people from the republican party. He also proposes restricting immigration and "extreme vetting" from the countries that tend to export people who believe in sharia law and stone homosexuals and rape victims. I think it's ridiculous that we're up in arms about bathrooms in North Carolina, while one of the major candidates in our party gets millions from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. And one last point, which might count me as running down the other party. I just don't like Clinton supporters. They're really shrill and righteous, and if you don't agree with them on everything you're automatically a racist and a bigot. It's difficult having a civil discussion with them, and I don't want to put myself in the same camp as them. Also, they're incredibly histrionic. "Trump is literally Hitler" and "I'm moving to Canada/Europe." And the best is "I can't believe half of this country is populated by xenophobic racist bigots. If you support Trump I want nothing to do with you." Last I checked, calling people names is not a good way to rally support to your cause.
    - dtien 10y ago
      Thanks for your response, I'm not the OP but I'm similarly trying to understand the reasons for Trump. My personal belief ( and talking with some of my own circle of friends that supported him ) leads me to believe it's a few thing: 1) the tough talking, america first attitude. I think this attracted a number of people simply due to the 'feeling' it gave them. 2) the desire for change. anti-establishment, anti-washington, anti-'what was before'. this was seen in Bernie's rise, and Brexit. so it almost didn't matter what Trump did or say at that point, he was the messenger of change and people were hungry for it. 3) blue collar workers & economy. If you feel like you've been left behind, and the govt isn't helping, well Trump's message definitely resonated better than HC. So those are a bit of what I'm sensing at this early stage of my understanding. I'm sure more will reveal itself throughout the coming days, months, years. However, to your specific points as to why you supported Trump: 1) Trump is easier to predict? I find this truly hard to believe. He is almost entirely unpredictable at this point. He ran on the Republican ticket, but he's hardly your standard Republican. He says he's not free trade, yet wants to do things to help big business, yet wants to impose huge tariffs and taxes on businesses that outsource and offshore to save money. IMO, these are somewhat contradictory. I honestly feel like Trump just echo'ed the anger of a certain group in the country, regardless of what he personally believes, or thinks he can implement. So on the case of predictable, I disagree strongly. 2) Clinton has been hawkish in the past, and generally leans towards US intervention, I'll give you that. However, there are also examples of her using actual diplomacy to achieve results ( Iran deal, like it or not ). Trump has said some really outlandish things as it comes to foreign policy. Encouraging the proliferation of nuclear weapons, abandoning our allies, letting certain parts of the world fend for themselves. I personally think there's a fine balance between being imperialistic and trying to keep the world peace. To say it's China's problem to deal with North Korea, so South Korea/Japan/Taiwan can go fend for themselves is a very narrow view of the world. I think this type of inward behavior actually leads to bigger/larger potential wars down the road. 3. Illegal immigration, OK clearly he built his platform on this. But this is again an issue where nothing with him is clear. He never presented a clear proposal no what he intends to do on immigration besides being tough and building a wall. And to say HC wants sweeping amnesty is inflaming and misleading the debate rather than moving it forward. 4. This is just strange to use this as a reason for Trump. I mean he said a couple things on LGBT, but if you follow this through his SCOTUS noms will play a huge role on the rights and privileges of that demographic going forward. I certainly am not trying to bash your entire premise for Trump, like I said in the beginning I am trying and reading to understand his rise, and some of it is becoming apparent. And I do hope he leads from the center and backs away from his more extreme views. And I do hope he succeeds as a president. But I am honestly confused by some of your points, as much as they might match with his campaign rhetoric, they do seem to crumble upon examination.