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I'm German. My grandfather was a professional photographer. Pictures he shot covered the front pages of major magazines in my country. He wasn't a celebrity but

by pluma 10y ago

I'm German. My grandfather was a professional photographer. Pictures he shot covered the front pages of major magazines in my country. He wasn't a celebrity but he worked with several who were. At the peak of his career he realized technology would kill the industry with the quality of amateur photography improving and technical skills becoming less important, he would often compete with people with barely any talent and be undercut on price. It was still sustainable at the time but he was sure better cameras, film and postproduction processes would kill his business. He went back to school and became a homeopathy practitioner. My personal opinions of homeopathy aside, I have to acknowledge he was an expert at what he was doing and he was even regularly invited to give lectures. He kept doing that until the day he died, almost twenty years ago. It's never to late to switch career paths. The bigger problem in the US seems to be that it is amazingly hard to do so unless you've built up a fortune to cover the cost of doing so. Even someone approaching retirement age can start over and be productive if they have the chance, financial means, mental health and determination to do it.

itchyouch 10y ago
That's interesting, but coming from the art side, I would argue that while the bottom would continue to fall, the middle & top-end still would need a professional. Running a photography business isn't just about taking the photos. The pre-production, post-production and business/marketing involved is what is necessary for a sustainable photography business. I think this challenge of the race to the bottom exists in virtually every industry.
- pluma 10y ago
  Oh, sure. There are still professional photographers but the industry is nothing like it was when my grandfather started in his late teens (post-war Germany, a period of massive growth). And we're talking about a freelancer (with an assistant), not someone working for a large agency. The industry changed a lot for people like him. That nearly every industry developed like that is precisely on point: that your job is currently a safe bet doesn't mean it's something you'll be able to do all your life, no matter how good you are. There may never be a "Bitrot Belt" but the job market simply isn't static and never has been. The entire point of the anecdote was that he had a successful career doing one thing well past his thirties, things changed, and he switched to a completely unrelated career and was pretty good at that too. The details are just flavouring because it's a personal story. If you want something more blue collar: my father-in-law had a long career as truck driver, then changed paths to work in logistics/manufacturing. Plus I think he worked as a mechanic at some point. Sure it's mostly centred around working with vehicles but those are still three different jobs before he reached retiring age. The bigger problem in the US though might be location. The Rust Belt is dead because the jobs went away and there are not enough new jobs in the region to replace them. People actually have to uproot and relocate to find a new job and a new home -- that can be jarring.
ajross 10y ago
> The bigger problem in the US seems to be that it is amazingly hard to do so unless you've built up a fortune to cover the cost of doing so. That's... really just not true at all. US labor mobility is higher than in pretty much any other developed country by pretty much whatever metric you want to pick. Measures like those in Germany (or whatever else you pick) would help at the margins but they would not do much to change the labor demographics of the midwest working class white community, which by broad historical standards are fairly good already. Fundamentally this was an election about identity. Nate Cohn said it best in a tweet last night when he pointed out that working class whites (and not their minority compatriots who share the same economic problems) had suddenly started behaving like a minority group and skewed hard for one candidate from their historical positions. It's about racism, and social change, and fear, and maybe sexism. "Economic Anxiety" is a myth that needs to die.
- rayiner 10y ago
  Trump lost support slightly among whites relative to Romney. In the northern and midwestern working class areas where Trump made big gains, Obama did well and won many areas that HRC lost. Obama won non college educated whites in Iowa by a substantial margin. Those people didn't vote for Trump this time around because they're now racists.
  - ant6n 10y ago
    Does that take into account turnout? What about the angle that sexism is actually a stronger driver of all this than sexist? It would certainly make the Obama->Trump conversion more explainable.
    - reitanqild 10y ago
      You are persistently trying to come up with a narrative that tars nearly half the voters in a democratic election as stupid and evil. If rayiner proves it cannot be racism then possibly it is sexism... Talk about spreading hate. I'm no big fan of Trump but I have reason to be thankful for Americans. And if Americans who live with American politicians year after year decides Trump is their best hope then A) it must be pretty bad IMO B) it is their choice and I respect it.
drakonandor 10y ago
The irony is that if he was not able to so easily change careers, a few of his ardent fans might have gotten real medical advice instead and had their lives saved (hypothetically).
- pluma 10y ago
  Luckily the German healthcare system is solid enough that it's exceedingly rare for people to end up in life-threatening situations because of quack doctors. And in his defence, he did send people to real doctors if they had real medical issues. Look, I grew up with this nonsense. My grandparents even believed in new age non-sense like "earth rays" and astrology. If you just want to get out some witticisms about how pseudoscience is obviously pseudoscience that's fine by me. But I'm not sure you're adding anything to the conversation by ragging on my dead grandfather. If you want to be outraged about something, how about being outraged that social public healthcare in Germany actually pays for homeopathic "medicine" (i.e. products with no active ingredients and no valid studies) and that pharmacies are allowed to claim these so-called remedies can actually alleviate specific symptoms.

by pluma 10y ago

itchyouch 10y ago

That's interesting, but coming from the art side, I would argue that while the bottom would continue to fall, the middle & top-end still would need a professional. Running a photography business isn't just about taking the photos. The pre-production, post-production and business/marketing involved is what is necessary for a sustainable photography business. I think this challenge of the race to the bottom exists in virtually every industry.

pluma 10y ago
Oh, sure. There are still professional photographers but the industry is nothing like it was when my grandfather started in his late teens (post-war Germany, a period of massive growth). And we're talking about a freelancer (with an assistant), not someone working for a large agency. The industry changed a lot for people like him. That nearly every industry developed like that is precisely on point: that your job is currently a safe bet doesn't mean it's something you'll be able to do all your life, no matter how good you are. There may never be a "Bitrot Belt" but the job market simply isn't static and never has been. The entire point of the anecdote was that he had a successful career doing one thing well past his thirties, things changed, and he switched to a completely unrelated career and was pretty good at that too. The details are just flavouring because it's a personal story. If you want something more blue collar: my father-in-law had a long career as truck driver, then changed paths to work in logistics/manufacturing. Plus I think he worked as a mechanic at some point. Sure it's mostly centred around working with vehicles but those are still three different jobs before he reached retiring age. The bigger problem in the US though might be location. The Rust Belt is dead because the jobs went away and there are not enough new jobs in the region to replace them. People actually have to uproot and relocate to find a new job and a new home -- that can be jarring.

ajross 10y ago

> The bigger problem in the US seems to be that it is amazingly hard to do so unless you've built up a fortune to cover the cost of doing so. That's... really just not true at all. US labor mobility is higher than in pretty much any other developed country by pretty much whatever metric you want to pick. Measures like those in Germany (or whatever else you pick) would help at the margins but they would not do much to change the labor demographics of the midwest working class white community, which by broad historical standards are fairly good already. Fundamentally this was an election about identity. Nate Cohn said it best in a tweet last night when he pointed out that working class whites (and not their minority compatriots who share the same economic problems) had suddenly started behaving like a minority group and skewed hard for one candidate from their historical positions. It's about racism, and social change, and fear, and maybe sexism. "Economic Anxiety" is a myth that needs to die.

rayiner 10y ago
Trump lost support slightly among whites relative to Romney. In the northern and midwestern working class areas where Trump made big gains, Obama did well and won many areas that HRC lost. Obama won non college educated whites in Iowa by a substantial margin. Those people didn't vote for Trump this time around because they're now racists.
- ant6n 10y ago
  Does that take into account turnout? What about the angle that sexism is actually a stronger driver of all this than sexist? It would certainly make the Obama->Trump conversion more explainable.
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    You are persistently trying to come up with a narrative that tars nearly half the voters in a democratic election as stupid and evil. If rayiner proves it cannot be racism then possibly it is sexism... Talk about spreading hate. I'm no big fan of Trump but I have reason to be thankful for Americans. And if Americans who live with American politicians year after year decides Trump is their best hope then A) it must be pretty bad IMO B) it is their choice and I respect it.

drakonandor 10y ago

The irony is that if he was not able to so easily change careers, a few of his ardent fans might have gotten real medical advice instead and had their lives saved (hypothetically).

pluma 10y ago
Luckily the German healthcare system is solid enough that it's exceedingly rare for people to end up in life-threatening situations because of quack doctors. And in his defence, he did send people to real doctors if they had real medical issues. Look, I grew up with this nonsense. My grandparents even believed in new age non-sense like "earth rays" and astrology. If you just want to get out some witticisms about how pseudoscience is obviously pseudoscience that's fine by me. But I'm not sure you're adding anything to the conversation by ragging on my dead grandfather. If you want to be outraged about something, how about being outraged that social public healthcare in Germany actually pays for homeopathic "medicine" (i.e. products with no active ingredients and no valid studies) and that pharmacies are allowed to claim these so-called remedies can actually alleviate specific symptoms.