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The Stack Overflow developer survey would suggest that's not correct[0]. Mac OS X 26.2% Windows 7 22.5% Linux 21.7% Windows 10 20.8% Windows 8 8.4% Window

The Stack Overflow developer survey would suggest that's not correct[0]. Mac OS X 26.2% Windows 7 22.5% Linux 21.7% Windows 10 20.8% Windows 8 8.4% Windows XP 0.4% Though it is possible that the sort of developers that use desktop linux don't use Stack Overflow. [0] http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#technology-desktop-operating-system http://stackoverflow.com/research/developer-survey-2016#tech...

captainmuon 10y ago
Huh, 21.7% is a surpizingly huge portion in my book. I would have suspected a much smaller number. One fifth is a market segment that is large enough to cater for. If you even put a small team on the task of ensuring that Linux installs on your notebooks, and make the minimal neccessary changes (like this BIOS change... or better revert of a breaking change), then you could claim Linux support as your unique selling point, and grab a huge fraction of those 20%.
- ddeck 10y ago
  >One fifth is a market segment that is large enough to cater for Keep in mind that that's 21.7% of stack overflow users (i.e. developers), not users in general. According StatCounter (based on browser stats), GNU/Linux represented 1.44% of desktop/laptop OS as of last month. Perhaps developers are more likely to use these laptops in particular, but they're unlikely to be 100% of users.
  - Alupis 10y ago
    > Keep in mind that that's 21.7% of stack overflow users (i.e. developers), not users in general. The unfortunate reality is that while this number is largerish, whenever a company comes out with a linux-based "developer edition" laptop, folks don't buy it. The Dell XPS 13, for example, is a great looking machine - but too many folks were busy buying macbooks to help Dell learn this market segment does indeed want more products like this. We need to vote with our wallets, in order to reinforce this behavior. Perhaps this may change now that developers are feeling disenfranchised with Apple over the recent model releases.
    - saghm 10y ago
      > whenever a company comes out with a linux-based "developer edition" laptop, folks don't buy it > The Dell XPS 13, for example, is a great looking machine - but too many folks were busy buying macbooks to help Dell learn this market segment does indeed want more products like this Not sure about the why other (potential) Linux users might not buy notebooks such as this, but despite single-booting Linux for the past several years, I wouldn't be any more likely to buy a computer with Linux pre-installed on it because the chances that the computer has a distro/configuration I would want to use is basically zero; if I'm going to have to reinstall Linux and/or configure it from scratch, then the fact that it's specifically marketed as a Linux laptop doesn't really give me anything. I suspect that this might be at least partially responsible for "developer edition" laptops failing, as at least in my anecdotal experience, many people who are looking for an out-of-the-box experience aren't generally inclined to use Linux as their main OS in the first place.
      - Alupis 10y ago
        > the chances that the computer has a distro/configuration I would want to use is basically zero Couldn't agree more (as a Fedora user myself! - Ubuntu is typically the "blessed" distro on these systems for various reasons). However, "linux support" is more than a chosen distro - it's the supporting code necessary to make linux a first-class citizen on the given hardware (driver support, setup scripts, porting popular software, etc...), as well as support knowledge and training at the OEM (bash is bash, and Firefox is Firefox on Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch or whatever).
        saghm 10y ago
        I mentioned this on the sibling comment, but I've honestly never had any issues with drivers/hardware support with Linux on laptops ( with the exception of putting Linux on an early 2015 Macbook shortly after they came out, which had a new wifi card model, one of those new-at-the-time force touch trackpads that used different drivers, etc.). That being said, I only started using Linux in 2012, and I know that things used to be much worse in that regard. As for technical support and training, I can see that being useful in an enterprise context, but again, I honestly can't see the type of people who want to single-boot Linux on their laptop being interested in support and training from Dell, HP, etc. It's been my experience that by the time someone is comfortable enough to use Linux as their sole OS (which many people don't want to do despite being comfortable enough due to needing Windows for other reasons, like gaming), they aren't really going to need or want any tech support from an OEM.
- dsr_ 10y ago
  It's bigger than one-fifth. Remember, the people running MacOS aren't buying Lenovos to do that.
  - admax88q 10y ago
    Sure but are they buying the Yoga 900/900S? There are other laptop lines targeted for developers.
cujo 10y ago
If you throw out MacOS (and you can, given the product in question), it's nearly 1/3.
_JamesA_ 10y ago
Or don't bother to fill out surveys. I need to update my LinuxCounter [1] profile after years of neglect. [1]: https://www.linuxcounter.net/ https://www.linuxcounter.net/
- bronson 10y ago
  I'd guess approximately 0.0% of businesses care about a self-selected Linux survey. (and I should update my profile too)
kintamanimatt 10y ago
I'm not sure your statistics support your conclusion. 21.7% equates to a huge number of developers, just not a majority. The fact that there are about as many developers who are Linux users as there are Mac users is quite telling.
- bronson 10y ago
  Can't wait to see those lines cross!
  - mikekchar 10y ago
    Lately my impression is that Mac is still gaining ground with developers. At least where I work, virtually every new developer asks for a Mac. I find it a bit strange because then they have to faff around with homebrew to get a decent GNU build, which is what we need for development. Pretty (Mac) still seems to be favoured over flexible (GNU/Linux). Maybe one day...
Theodores 10y ago
My gut feeling is that 0.5% of PCs/Macs sold for business use are running desktop linux in the UK. This is based entirely on my experience of working for internet based businesses over the last decade. Where I am right now that figure is actually true, we have 200 or so PCs/Macs and my box is the only linux one. Okay, anecdotal but ballpark. Lenovo have a 20% market share in the UK and my gut feeling is that 20 million UK employees sit in front of a computer rather than a sat-nav or a point of sale system etc. Given that Lenovo have dozens of Thinkpads and Yoga variants, there are probably a dozen machines of interest to the linux desktop type of person. If we assume that PCs/Macs get replaced every two years (generous) then the arithmetic works out at around a thousand sales per model per year to desktop linux users. I run normal Ubuntu not some variant - Mint/Debian/etc. Linux != Ubuntu, there are those that prefer the Red Hat flavours. Therefore a default Linux install of Ubuntu isn't going to be what picky linux devs will want. Note that in the UK the keyboard is different and there is a 'u' in colour. You would want your default linux install to work out the box without having to change locale settings. Obviously the US/Canada market is vast compared to the UK, but not more than 10 times larger. So that still means a low figure for expected linux sales even for the gigantic Lenovo company. Why would they bother to support it? There is no business case.
Hydraulix989 10y ago
Linux is ahead of Windows 10 even on your very list. How can you argue to the contrary?

captainmuon 10y ago

Huh, 21.7% is a surpizingly huge portion in my book. I would have suspected a much smaller number. One fifth is a market segment that is large enough to cater for. If you even put a small team on the task of ensuring that Linux installs on your notebooks, and make the minimal neccessary changes (like this BIOS change... or better revert of a breaking change), then you could claim Linux support as your unique selling point, and grab a huge fraction of those 20%.

ddeck 10y ago
>One fifth is a market segment that is large enough to cater for Keep in mind that that's 21.7% of stack overflow users (i.e. developers), not users in general. According StatCounter (based on browser stats), GNU/Linux represented 1.44% of desktop/laptop OS as of last month. Perhaps developers are more likely to use these laptops in particular, but they're unlikely to be 100% of users.
- Alupis 10y ago
  > Keep in mind that that's 21.7% of stack overflow users (i.e. developers), not users in general. The unfortunate reality is that while this number is largerish, whenever a company comes out with a linux-based "developer edition" laptop, folks don't buy it. The Dell XPS 13, for example, is a great looking machine - but too many folks were busy buying macbooks to help Dell learn this market segment does indeed want more products like this. We need to vote with our wallets, in order to reinforce this behavior. Perhaps this may change now that developers are feeling disenfranchised with Apple over the recent model releases.
  - saghm 10y ago
    > whenever a company comes out with a linux-based "developer edition" laptop, folks don't buy it > The Dell XPS 13, for example, is a great looking machine - but too many folks were busy buying macbooks to help Dell learn this market segment does indeed want more products like this Not sure about the why other (potential) Linux users might not buy notebooks such as this, but despite single-booting Linux for the past several years, I wouldn't be any more likely to buy a computer with Linux pre-installed on it because the chances that the computer has a distro/configuration I would want to use is basically zero; if I'm going to have to reinstall Linux and/or configure it from scratch, then the fact that it's specifically marketed as a Linux laptop doesn't really give me anything. I suspect that this might be at least partially responsible for "developer edition" laptops failing, as at least in my anecdotal experience, many people who are looking for an out-of-the-box experience aren't generally inclined to use Linux as their main OS in the first place.
    - Alupis 10y ago
      > the chances that the computer has a distro/configuration I would want to use is basically zero Couldn't agree more (as a Fedora user myself! - Ubuntu is typically the "blessed" distro on these systems for various reasons). However, "linux support" is more than a chosen distro - it's the supporting code necessary to make linux a first-class citizen on the given hardware (driver support, setup scripts, porting popular software, etc...), as well as support knowledge and training at the OEM (bash is bash, and Firefox is Firefox on Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch or whatever).
      - saghm 10y ago
        I mentioned this on the sibling comment, but I've honestly never had any issues with drivers/hardware support with Linux on laptops ( with the exception of putting Linux on an early 2015 Macbook shortly after they came out, which had a new wifi card model, one of those new-at-the-time force touch trackpads that used different drivers, etc.). That being said, I only started using Linux in 2012, and I know that things used to be much worse in that regard. As for technical support and training, I can see that being useful in an enterprise context, but again, I honestly can't see the type of people who want to single-boot Linux on their laptop being interested in support and training from Dell, HP, etc. It's been my experience that by the time someone is comfortable enough to use Linux as their sole OS (which many people don't want to do despite being comfortable enough due to needing Windows for other reasons, like gaming), they aren't really going to need or want any tech support from an OEM.
dsr_ 10y ago
It's bigger than one-fifth. Remember, the people running MacOS aren't buying Lenovos to do that.
- admax88q 10y ago
  Sure but are they buying the Yoga 900/900S? There are other laptop lines targeted for developers.

cujo 10y ago

If you throw out MacOS (and you can, given the product in question), it's nearly 1/3.

_JamesA_ 10y ago

Or don't bother to fill out surveys. I need to update my LinuxCounter [1] profile after years of neglect. [1]: https://www.linuxcounter.net/ https://www.linuxcounter.net/

bronson 10y ago
I'd guess approximately 0.0% of businesses care about a self-selected Linux survey. (and I should update my profile too)

kintamanimatt 10y ago

I'm not sure your statistics support your conclusion. 21.7% equates to a huge number of developers, just not a majority. The fact that there are about as many developers who are Linux users as there are Mac users is quite telling.

bronson 10y ago
Can't wait to see those lines cross!
- mikekchar 10y ago
  Lately my impression is that Mac is still gaining ground with developers. At least where I work, virtually every new developer asks for a Mac. I find it a bit strange because then they have to faff around with homebrew to get a decent GNU build, which is what we need for development. Pretty (Mac) still seems to be favoured over flexible (GNU/Linux). Maybe one day...

Theodores 10y ago

My gut feeling is that 0.5% of PCs/Macs sold for business use are running desktop linux in the UK. This is based entirely on my experience of working for internet based businesses over the last decade. Where I am right now that figure is actually true, we have 200 or so PCs/Macs and my box is the only linux one. Okay, anecdotal but ballpark. Lenovo have a 20% market share in the UK and my gut feeling is that 20 million UK employees sit in front of a computer rather than a sat-nav or a point of sale system etc. Given that Lenovo have dozens of Thinkpads and Yoga variants, there are probably a dozen machines of interest to the linux desktop type of person. If we assume that PCs/Macs get replaced every two years (generous) then the arithmetic works out at around a thousand sales per model per year to desktop linux users. I run normal Ubuntu not some variant - Mint/Debian/etc. Linux != Ubuntu, there are those that prefer the Red Hat flavours. Therefore a default Linux install of Ubuntu isn't going to be what picky linux devs will want. Note that in the UK the keyboard is different and there is a 'u' in colour. You would want your default linux install to work out the box without having to change locale settings. Obviously the US/Canada market is vast compared to the UK, but not more than 10 times larger. So that still means a low figure for expected linux sales even for the gigantic Lenovo company. Why would they bother to support it? There is no business case.

Hydraulix989 10y ago

Linux is ahead of Windows 10 even on your very list. How can you argue to the contrary?