5 ms·

I actually agree with you in some cases here. I'm not a huge fan of Hillary. However, as a young women working in technology and male dominated environments, it

I actually agree with you in some cases here. I'm not a huge fan of Hillary. However, as a young women working in technology and male dominated environments, it's really hard for me to believe the pathological sexism isnt a fundamentally limiting component in making everything better. I don't believe women should get free rides and everything should be equal overnight. I'm not a man hater. I know many educated male programmers I work with who agree both work and college culture and the products made in technology would be better if there were an equal gender ratio in the workforce. As a woman who has been spoken to in previous workplaces the way Trump has spoken poorly of women, it's too much for me to overlook. It may seem like a one off issue for intelligent men who are (and you should) looking at all the contributing components, not just focusing on the pieces targeted media ads bring to light, but to me its a fundamental component for economic and technology depressions that women are not making money and contributing to technological advances and product creation geared for the masses. It's fundamentally hypocritical to be a proponent for economic growth and treat 3.5 billion people in the population as potential girlfriends instead of opportunity for economic growth beyond buying diamonds on TV (the business his ex supermodel wife has).

saiya-jin 10y ago
there's not much to disagree on, you are completely right and I am sorry if you encountered any of this low idiotic approach before. I presume we come from very different places (me from eastern Europe, currently in Switzerland). I've never ever seen any negative bias or behavior discussed towards women neither in engineering school, nor in any of the numerous job in my 12 year career. In uni, out of 120 students graduating in IT, there was exactly 1 woman. She was in the center of attention, the teachers were more tolerant to her during exams (not giving free passes though!) and overall she was cherished and very welcomed. While working, women were/are a bit more common now, and again there is more positive bias towards them rather than equality. Not complaining, far from it, it's refreshing to see slightly different attitude at some times, and more often than not, there is no difference. To me it seems the whole time tech jobs are just not that interesting to women, too abstract, work too nerdy and who knows what. This seems to be changing, hopefully the trend will continue. Nothing to lose, just gain for all of us.
- usmeteora 10y ago
  There is a female Romanian Engineer who works in my department, a bit older and she said she never encountered sexism even being an issue until she came to America ten years into her Engineering career, and that in Europe being a female engineer was no big deal, welcomed like you said but not biased one way or the other, and she has pointed out that America has a weird issue with sexism shes never experienced working anywhere in Europe, so I find it interesting you echo the same observations. With that being said, I'd love to work in Europe, maybe I should check that out aha.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
maratd 10y ago
> products made in technology would be better if there were an equal gender ratio in the workforce. There is no justifiable reason for a 50/50 split in any industry. Some industries are dominated by women and some by men. That's OK. It just reflects the differences between men and women, and yes, they do exist. The same applies to the workforce at large. If a larger percentage of women than men choose not to participate in a traditional manner, that's OK. Just because we don't put a dollar figure on rearing kids or community engagement, doesn't mean those activities don't bring substantial value to the table. > As a woman who has been spoken to in previous workplaces the way Trump has spoken poorly of women There is a fundamental difference between guys "shooting the shit" and actually behaving that way. He's far too much of a pussy to be grabbing anyone by the pussy. That said, there are certainly scumbags out there who would behave that way and neither you (nor anyone present) should tolerate that kind of behavior, regardless of repercussions. Well, the last part is easy to say and hard to do. One of the reasons I'm not in a traditional employment setting is that I have a very low tolerance for shitty behavior.
- foldr 10y ago
  >There is a fundamental difference between guys "shooting the shit" and actually behaving that way. There's also a fundamental difference between killing someone and threatening to kill someone, but that doesn't make either ok. In any case, there is abundant evidence that Trump does in fact grope women.
zigzigzag 10y ago
Hillary was undone by her own sexism. Her loss and Trump's win is the final bankruptcy of feminist ideology, reaping what it sowed. When Obama ran, did he repeatedly suggest people should vote for him because he was black? I don't recall so. I remember him talking about his policies and beliefs. Hillary's campaign rapidly devolved after the primaries to "vote for me because I'm not Trump and I'm a (in my view) super competent woman". Her supporters slogan became "I'm with her". The bigger problem though is how the Dems cleared the way for her to run almost unopposed except for Bernie, an independent who didn't give a crap what the Democrats thought. Trump defeated many primary challengers. Where were the D alternatives to Hillary? Apparently the idea spread that it was Hillary's "turn", that after a black man there should be a woman, and wouldn't that be a nice historical motif. So the Dems tipped the playing field towards one of the weakest, most easily attacked candidates in US history. She can't give speeches. She has few policy ideas beyond starting a war with Russia (NFZ in Syria). She exudes corruption. She epitomises the widely disliked status quo. She has more skeletons in her closet than a medical student. She would have been the continuation of a dynasty. Yet somewhere, the groupthink-saturated world that decides these things decided it was time for a female President and after that her qualifications became irrelevant. Feminists, both male and female, became so transfixed with breaking "the last glass ceiling" that they grabbed the first female to come along and demanded she be made top dog. Disagree? Give me a better explanation for how the Democrats mysteriously found themselves with an almost empty stable of primary challengers to Clinton. People and especially women need to stop talking about gender imbalances or the "injustice" of them or how to fix them - it's yesterday's conversation. Trying to "fix" these non-problems by tipping the playing field towards women gives you Trump, a man who is the walking embodiment of not giving a shit about feminists. If the Dems had simply treated HRC as anyone else, they might be in power now.
- usmeteora 10y ago
  yeh so, I was not at all trying to defend Hillary, at all, as I mentioned in the first sentence, so I'm not sure why I need to reagree with you on all of this you just said, because I do, entirely, which is why me and almost every female I know, most of whom are highly educated and work in tech/male dominated fields, did not vote for her. I agree with you about this and so do most of the women I know. She absolutely embodies the outdated and old school corrupt version of aggressive angry corrupt feminism and was riding on the idea of being a female but outside of that was not a compelling candidate, and was a bad choice for females in the first place. I would love to see a Female President in my lifetime, but a qualified one who sets a good example for women not validating an outdated extremist feminist gone awry version. However, that is unrelated in my opinion about the degrading and vulgar comments Trump has made about his female employees, and Hillary is unrelated to the men that have personally spoken to me that way, who are only going to feel further validated by this election. I absolutely agree with you about this, and I think this happening to Hillary is a good thing, because it is an impetus for women to actually change and not just cry "I'm a woman". I don't get respect from the men I work with because I am a woman and play the gender card, I get respect from the men I work with because my work is up to par and I DONT play that card. With that being said, every guy I work with for the past few days has gone out of their way to make it clear to me they do not support men who talk to women the way Trump has spoken of woman, because they view me as a real person who is capable of being hurt by comments like this, not a freebie that comes in a party launch goodie bag, and NONE of them want to be associated with it. But yes, I agree with you regarding Hillary's campaign.

saiya-jin 10y ago

there's not much to disagree on, you are completely right and I am sorry if you encountered any of this low idiotic approach before. I presume we come from very different places (me from eastern Europe, currently in Switzerland). I've never ever seen any negative bias or behavior discussed towards women neither in engineering school, nor in any of the numerous job in my 12 year career. In uni, out of 120 students graduating in IT, there was exactly 1 woman. She was in the center of attention, the teachers were more tolerant to her during exams (not giving free passes though!) and overall she was cherished and very welcomed. While working, women were/are a bit more common now, and again there is more positive bias towards them rather than equality. Not complaining, far from it, it's refreshing to see slightly different attitude at some times, and more often than not, there is no difference. To me it seems the whole time tech jobs are just not that interesting to women, too abstract, work too nerdy and who knows what. This seems to be changing, hopefully the trend will continue. Nothing to lose, just gain for all of us.

usmeteora 10y ago
There is a female Romanian Engineer who works in my department, a bit older and she said she never encountered sexism even being an issue until she came to America ten years into her Engineering career, and that in Europe being a female engineer was no big deal, welcomed like you said but not biased one way or the other, and she has pointed out that America has a weird issue with sexism shes never experienced working anywhere in Europe, so I find it interesting you echo the same observations. With that being said, I'd love to work in Europe, maybe I should check that out aha.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

maratd 10y ago

> products made in technology would be better if there were an equal gender ratio in the workforce. There is no justifiable reason for a 50/50 split in any industry. Some industries are dominated by women and some by men. That's OK. It just reflects the differences between men and women, and yes, they do exist. The same applies to the workforce at large. If a larger percentage of women than men choose not to participate in a traditional manner, that's OK. Just because we don't put a dollar figure on rearing kids or community engagement, doesn't mean those activities don't bring substantial value to the table. > As a woman who has been spoken to in previous workplaces the way Trump has spoken poorly of women There is a fundamental difference between guys "shooting the shit" and actually behaving that way. He's far too much of a pussy to be grabbing anyone by the pussy. That said, there are certainly scumbags out there who would behave that way and neither you (nor anyone present) should tolerate that kind of behavior, regardless of repercussions. Well, the last part is easy to say and hard to do. One of the reasons I'm not in a traditional employment setting is that I have a very low tolerance for shitty behavior.

foldr 10y ago
>There is a fundamental difference between guys "shooting the shit" and actually behaving that way. There's also a fundamental difference between killing someone and threatening to kill someone, but that doesn't make either ok. In any case, there is abundant evidence that Trump does in fact grope women.

zigzigzag 10y ago

Hillary was undone by her own sexism. Her loss and Trump's win is the final bankruptcy of feminist ideology, reaping what it sowed. When Obama ran, did he repeatedly suggest people should vote for him because he was black? I don't recall so. I remember him talking about his policies and beliefs. Hillary's campaign rapidly devolved after the primaries to "vote for me because I'm not Trump and I'm a (in my view) super competent woman". Her supporters slogan became "I'm with her". The bigger problem though is how the Dems cleared the way for her to run almost unopposed except for Bernie, an independent who didn't give a crap what the Democrats thought. Trump defeated many primary challengers. Where were the D alternatives to Hillary? Apparently the idea spread that it was Hillary's "turn", that after a black man there should be a woman, and wouldn't that be a nice historical motif. So the Dems tipped the playing field towards one of the weakest, most easily attacked candidates in US history. She can't give speeches. She has few policy ideas beyond starting a war with Russia (NFZ in Syria). She exudes corruption. She epitomises the widely disliked status quo. She has more skeletons in her closet than a medical student. She would have been the continuation of a dynasty. Yet somewhere, the groupthink-saturated world that decides these things decided it was time for a female President and after that her qualifications became irrelevant. Feminists, both male and female, became so transfixed with breaking "the last glass ceiling" that they grabbed the first female to come along and demanded she be made top dog. Disagree? Give me a better explanation for how the Democrats mysteriously found themselves with an almost empty stable of primary challengers to Clinton. People and especially women need to stop talking about gender imbalances or the "injustice" of them or how to fix them - it's yesterday's conversation. Trying to "fix" these non-problems by tipping the playing field towards women gives you Trump, a man who is the walking embodiment of not giving a shit about feminists. If the Dems had simply treated HRC as anyone else, they might be in power now.

usmeteora 10y ago
yeh so, I was not at all trying to defend Hillary, at all, as I mentioned in the first sentence, so I'm not sure why I need to reagree with you on all of this you just said, because I do, entirely, which is why me and almost every female I know, most of whom are highly educated and work in tech/male dominated fields, did not vote for her. I agree with you about this and so do most of the women I know. She absolutely embodies the outdated and old school corrupt version of aggressive angry corrupt feminism and was riding on the idea of being a female but outside of that was not a compelling candidate, and was a bad choice for females in the first place. I would love to see a Female President in my lifetime, but a qualified one who sets a good example for women not validating an outdated extremist feminist gone awry version. However, that is unrelated in my opinion about the degrading and vulgar comments Trump has made about his female employees, and Hillary is unrelated to the men that have personally spoken to me that way, who are only going to feel further validated by this election. I absolutely agree with you about this, and I think this happening to Hillary is a good thing, because it is an impetus for women to actually change and not just cry "I'm a woman". I don't get respect from the men I work with because I am a woman and play the gender card, I get respect from the men I work with because my work is up to par and I DONT play that card. With that being said, every guy I work with for the past few days has gone out of their way to make it clear to me they do not support men who talk to women the way Trump has spoken of woman, because they view me as a real person who is capable of being hurt by comments like this, not a freebie that comes in a party launch goodie bag, and NONE of them want to be associated with it. But yes, I agree with you regarding Hillary's campaign.