7 ms·

> conflating what Trump said about immigration with what his supporters have said about immigration Please find me a single example of this. I haven't heard a

> conflating what Trump said about immigration with what his supporters have said about immigration Please find me a single example of this. I haven't heard a single republican ever complain about legal immigration.

Goladus 10y ago
Here are four examples: John Derbyshire (http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/orlando-paris-yorkshire-and-donald-trumps-unanswerable-questions-about-immigration/ http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/orlando-paris-yorkshire-and-d...) Steve Sailer (http://www.unz.com/isteve/will-the-zeroth-amendment-trump-the-first-amendment/ http://www.unz.com/isteve/will-the-zeroth-amendment-trump-th...) Ann Coulter (author of Adios, America: The Left's Plan to Turn Our Country into a Third World Hellhole) Pat Buchanan (http://buchanan.org/blog/immigration-time-out-163 http://buchanan.org/blog/immigration-time-out-163)
JshWright 10y ago
As long as the person immigrating has the right color skin and prays to the right god.
- Goladus 10y ago
  As long as the person immigrating has the right color skin and prays to the right god More accurately: comes from a compatible culture and shows an interest and willingness to assimilate.
- shawndumas 10y ago
  I think that what people are trying to explain is that that kind of shaming, accusatory, intentional, mischaracterization of the 'right' is what caused us to now have Trump as our president. You are alienating them. The kind of people that I know that actually voted for Trump could not care less about the color/religion of a person so long as they had a basic desire to assimilate. In other words; come to America to become an American not to make America like place you left. Now we have an obligation to understand these Trump voters as generously as possible; or we can berate, belittle, and battle-harden them and get another Trump (or worse) in 8 years.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    > understand these Trump voters as generously as possible Is this likely to be reciprocated?
    - Goladus 10y ago
      Is this likely to be reciprocated? Not in all cases. But you still have to pick your battles. When faced with opposition you can negotiate or go to war. If you start a war, you'd better be ready to win, or else you stand to lose everything. And you had better be ready for the moderates to side against you.
    - soylentcola 10y ago
      Not sure how to say this in a way that doesn't sound smug or self-righteous but...that's the price you pay for empathy and at least attempting to take the high road. There will always be people who don't have the ability, capacity, wherewithal, or life experiences needed to see the bigger picture or recognize the need to put themselves in the shoes of others. That leaves you with two options: fight "dirty" right back or deal with the reality and accept that you face an uphill battle.
    - TheGirondin 10y ago
      Considering that urban liberals have control over almost all American mass culture/media outlets, yes, we are well aware of how you think what your ideas are.
  - mkaziz 10y ago
    I think the question is what it means to be American. To me, it means living and let living, and to accept others no matter who or what they are. To others, it means to be white and Christian.
    - shawndumas 10y ago
      That's exactly the current, default, ungenerous, belittling view held by democrats. How did that work out? If you cannot understand them you cannot help them see why Trump is a bad idea. It seems to me that you've dismissed them, having never thought to put yourself in their shoes; the shoes of the factory worker. Michael Moore has friends that he likes, that he thinks are good people--not ignorant racists--that voted for Trump and instead of closing his mind to them he's tried to understand >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY-CiPVo_NQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY-CiPVo_NQ Maybe you should too...
vidarh 10y ago
I have personally had discussions with several Trump supporters who are literally nazis who expressed far worse than what he suggested.
- jazzyk 10y ago
  Seriously? You are projecting the opinions of the two or three people you had contact with, on all Trump supporters?
  - pacomerh 10y ago
    No sir, its not 2 or 3 people, its far too many to count now. I've seen many of these cases where Trump supporters just want to send (legal or not) immigrants to their countries. And yes, not all Trump supporters are the same, but people are using his ill messages as an excuse to express their xenophobia to critical levels.
  - vidarh 10y ago
    No, I am not. You seem to be projecting opinions onto me that there's no support for in my comment. I was answering someone who questioned whether there was even a single example of complaints about legal immigration. And I personally have come across people that wanted to do much worse than deport legal immigrants.
chrisrhoden 10y ago
http://tal.fm/600/1 http://tal.fm/600/1 It's a pretty central issue right now.
- TheGirondin 10y ago
  This is actually a great example of the current phenomena where left-wing elites draw out the caricatures they want to see from their out-group (lower class or rural whites) and then reinforce it through their echo chambers. No one at This American Life has any insight into what it means to be a blue collar worker worker.
  - chrisrhoden 10y ago
    > Please find me a single example of this. Please don't hold me to a standard that was not requested. I don't believe there is any evidence that this was drawn out; as far as I can tell, many of the statements are simply recordings of town hall meetings.
    - TheGirondin 10y ago
      You are correct. I didn't mean to direct that at you, but rather the larger problem of blue collar workers being an out-group of discourse at the national level.
chrisrhoden 10y ago
http://tal.fm/600/1 http://tal.fm/600/1 It's a pretty central issue right now.
barrkel 10y ago
I've heard quite a bit of moaning about H-1Bs.
darpa_escapee 10y ago
Talk to more Republicans in more demographics. They want to severely restrict what is considered legal immigration, because they have a problem with certain types of people being here legally.
- 15charlimit 10y ago
  In my experience, the biggest issue many Republicans have with legal immigrants is that they tend to fervently support anything and everything that could benefit illegal immigrants. The friend of my enemy, etc.
  - lloyd-christmas 10y ago
    That sounds exactly the opposite of everything I've heard. Legal immigrants are proud of their achievement and tend to negatively view those who circumvent the system that they participated in.
  - darpa_escapee 10y ago
    Read Trump's "Contract with the American Voter". In the "Five actions to restore security and the constitutional rule of law" section is this: > FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered “extreme vetting.”

Goladus 10y ago

Here are four examples: John Derbyshire (http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/orlando-paris-yorkshire-and-donald-trumps-unanswerable-questions-about-immigration/ http://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/orlando-paris-yorkshire-and-d...) Steve Sailer (http://www.unz.com/isteve/will-the-zeroth-amendment-trump-the-first-amendment/ http://www.unz.com/isteve/will-the-zeroth-amendment-trump-th...) Ann Coulter (author of Adios, America: The Left's Plan to Turn Our Country into a Third World Hellhole) Pat Buchanan (http://buchanan.org/blog/immigration-time-out-163 http://buchanan.org/blog/immigration-time-out-163)

JshWright 10y ago

As long as the person immigrating has the right color skin and prays to the right god.

Goladus 10y ago
As long as the person immigrating has the right color skin and prays to the right god More accurately: comes from a compatible culture and shows an interest and willingness to assimilate.
shawndumas 10y ago
I think that what people are trying to explain is that that kind of shaming, accusatory, intentional, mischaracterization of the 'right' is what caused us to now have Trump as our president. You are alienating them. The kind of people that I know that actually voted for Trump could not care less about the color/religion of a person so long as they had a basic desire to assimilate. In other words; come to America to become an American not to make America like place you left. Now we have an obligation to understand these Trump voters as generously as possible; or we can berate, belittle, and battle-harden them and get another Trump (or worse) in 8 years.
- pjc50 10y ago
  > understand these Trump voters as generously as possible Is this likely to be reciprocated?
  - Goladus 10y ago
    Is this likely to be reciprocated? Not in all cases. But you still have to pick your battles. When faced with opposition you can negotiate or go to war. If you start a war, you'd better be ready to win, or else you stand to lose everything. And you had better be ready for the moderates to side against you.
  - soylentcola 10y ago
    Not sure how to say this in a way that doesn't sound smug or self-righteous but...that's the price you pay for empathy and at least attempting to take the high road. There will always be people who don't have the ability, capacity, wherewithal, or life experiences needed to see the bigger picture or recognize the need to put themselves in the shoes of others. That leaves you with two options: fight "dirty" right back or deal with the reality and accept that you face an uphill battle.
  - TheGirondin 10y ago
    Considering that urban liberals have control over almost all American mass culture/media outlets, yes, we are well aware of how you think what your ideas are.
- mkaziz 10y ago
  I think the question is what it means to be American. To me, it means living and let living, and to accept others no matter who or what they are. To others, it means to be white and Christian.
  - shawndumas 10y ago
    That's exactly the current, default, ungenerous, belittling view held by democrats. How did that work out? If you cannot understand them you cannot help them see why Trump is a bad idea. It seems to me that you've dismissed them, having never thought to put yourself in their shoes; the shoes of the factory worker. Michael Moore has friends that he likes, that he thinks are good people--not ignorant racists--that voted for Trump and instead of closing his mind to them he's tried to understand >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY-CiPVo_NQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY-CiPVo_NQ Maybe you should too...

vidarh 10y ago

I have personally had discussions with several Trump supporters who are literally nazis who expressed far worse than what he suggested.

jazzyk 10y ago
Seriously? You are projecting the opinions of the two or three people you had contact with, on all Trump supporters?
- pacomerh 10y ago
  No sir, its not 2 or 3 people, its far too many to count now. I've seen many of these cases where Trump supporters just want to send (legal or not) immigrants to their countries. And yes, not all Trump supporters are the same, but people are using his ill messages as an excuse to express their xenophobia to critical levels.
- vidarh 10y ago
  No, I am not. You seem to be projecting opinions onto me that there's no support for in my comment. I was answering someone who questioned whether there was even a single example of complaints about legal immigration. And I personally have come across people that wanted to do much worse than deport legal immigrants.

chrisrhoden 10y ago

http://tal.fm/600/1 http://tal.fm/600/1 It's a pretty central issue right now.

TheGirondin 10y ago
This is actually a great example of the current phenomena where left-wing elites draw out the caricatures they want to see from their out-group (lower class or rural whites) and then reinforce it through their echo chambers. No one at This American Life has any insight into what it means to be a blue collar worker worker.
- chrisrhoden 10y ago
  > Please find me a single example of this. Please don't hold me to a standard that was not requested. I don't believe there is any evidence that this was drawn out; as far as I can tell, many of the statements are simply recordings of town hall meetings.
  - TheGirondin 10y ago
    You are correct. I didn't mean to direct that at you, but rather the larger problem of blue collar workers being an out-group of discourse at the national level.

chrisrhoden 10y ago

http://tal.fm/600/1 http://tal.fm/600/1 It's a pretty central issue right now.

barrkel 10y ago

I've heard quite a bit of moaning about H-1Bs.

darpa_escapee 10y ago

Talk to more Republicans in more demographics. They want to severely restrict what is considered legal immigration, because they have a problem with certain types of people being here legally.

15charlimit 10y ago
In my experience, the biggest issue many Republicans have with legal immigrants is that they tend to fervently support anything and everything that could benefit illegal immigrants. The friend of my enemy, etc.
- lloyd-christmas 10y ago
  That sounds exactly the opposite of everything I've heard. Legal immigrants are proud of their achievement and tend to negatively view those who circumvent the system that they participated in.
- darpa_escapee 10y ago
  Read Trump's "Contract with the American Voter". In the "Five actions to restore security and the constitutional rule of law" section is this: > FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered “extreme vetting.”