6 ms·

I've tried this as I was really excited after hearing about fusions discontinuation and how incredibly poorly performing virtualbox IO and network is. I found

by mrmondo 10y ago

I've tried this as I was really excited after hearing about fusions discontinuation and how incredibly poorly performing virtualbox IO and network is. I found it to be even slower than virtualbox which I have no idea how this is possible. Tested on a late 2015 5k iMac top specced and a late 2015 MacBook top specced both running OSX 10.11 at the time. I will re-test the latest version with MacOS 10.12.

mrweasel 10y ago
VMware Fusion isn't discontinued. I might be wrong, but wasn't the last update in September? And you can still buy it from VMware.
- nailer 10y ago
  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/27/vmware_fusion_and_workstation_development_team_fired/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/27/vmware_fusion_and_wo... Entire team got fired, but yes still being maintained from a new team of outsourced devs.
  - sdegutis 10y ago
    Whoa. Why in the world could that have happened? Article doesn't really go into any theories.
    - danesparza 10y ago
      I would imagine sales numbers wouldn't justify a full US based development team in 'maintenance mode'. Unfortunately, their annual reports don't breakout revenue by product: http://ir.vmware.com/overview/financial-information/annual-reports/default.aspx http://ir.vmware.com/overview/financial-information/annual-r... The company probably feels they can do just as well (at a lower cost) with outsourced devs.
      - luckman212 10y ago
        Well that is working out horribly so far. Fusion 8.5.x is unusable on 10.12 due to a bug that causes an immediate crash when grabbing input control. I as well as many others reported the bug long ago but they have been unable to fix it. No surprise - the outsourced team is probably still scratching their heads trying to figure out what's what.
        mhurron 10y ago
        > Fusion 8.5.x is unusable on 10.12 Works for me and many others here, so there's more going on with your setup than just Fusion and Sierra not getting along.
        wila 10y ago
        Works fine here too, but you are correct that this is a serious issue that people are bumping into. Here's a quote from the product line marketing manager from VMware Fusion on this topic [0] <quote> We're really sorry about this situation, but rest assured it's our #1 bug right now. It's technically both our and Apple's bug. The default behaviour of something we always called/did was changed in a later near-final build of 10.12, and that introduced this bug. We and Apple are working together but like always we can't disclose timelines. Please note that we are absolutely working on resolving this issue and issuing an update as soon as we can. </quote> [0] https://communities.vmware.com/message/2630278#2630278 https://communities.vmware.com/message/2630278#2630278
    - cmurf 10y ago
      Why would/should Dell care about virtualization on macOS?
      - sjwright 10y ago
        For the same reason any company should care about any product? Because selling goods and services at a profit is a sensible business model?
        cmurf 10y ago
        What if they estimate it's not worth the effort? Or is misaligned with other interests? e.g. Apple could sell macOS licenses to run in a VM on non-Apple hardware, but they don't. To run macOS per the EULA, it can only be done on Apple hardware.
  - pmarreck 10y ago
    oh jesus. somehow this flew under my radar. this isn't good
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- jlgaddis 10y ago
  The only updates I remember since I last bought Fusion (just over a year ago, not long before their announcement) was a security update (I think that was the one in September you refer to) and perhaps a small point release or two. I'm not really expecting any awesome new features, just bug fixes mostly. As I move (mostly) back to Linux on the desktop, I'd really like to use VMware but I can't rationalize $249 for a product that is quite possible "end of life" (for all practical purposes).
davidcollantes 10y ago
It is the same under macOS 10.12.1. I tried it (can't beat free!), and within a few days I was back on Fusion.
doodyhead 10y ago
Found the same on a 2015 rMBP with max specs (Sierra, 16GB RAM, Core i7). It's much less performant with exactly the same VM as VirtualBox. In fact, it ate my entire CPU while it was running, even when the VM OS (Windows 10) settled down after startup. and was apparently running no CPU-intensive processes. It also crashed twice in the space of an hour, bringing down the entire VM, necessitating a restart. Not touching Veertu again for a long time.
- izik_e2 10y ago
  Maybe it was because windows update was running in the background?
  - doodyhead 10y ago
    Could very well have been a factor. I gave up on it quickly. Repeatedly crashing renders it an unnecessary annoyance. VirtualBox works well enough, is stable and reliable, and Veertu doesn't distinguish itself enough to merit the pain in switching.
- mrmondo 10y ago
  See new comments of trial I'm running today - I'm replying to my main post as I go. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12916309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12916309
tambourine_man 10y ago
Where did you hear that it was being discontinued?
nailer 10y ago
Totally different results here. I use a Surface Book now but on my Mac (2013 MBA) Veertu destroyed VMware and VirtualBox for interactive latency. Ie, VirtualBox and VMware were slow to the point I'd consider them unusable (I'm latency sensitive, eg, I consider Eclipse to the be same and other people think it's fine). Veertu made me actually test in Edge again. Did you still have VMware or VirtualBox drivers installed? IIRC VMware doesn't actually remove itself when you uninstall it, you have to remove the kmods yourself.
- dguaraglia 10y ago
  That is weird. I've used Virtualbox and VMWare on my MacBook Pros, and interactive latency has always been indistinguishable from a native application.
- klum 10y ago
  I'm latency sensitive as well, and just wondering: have you found any virtualization solution on Windows which provides usable performance for Linux guests?
- mrmondo 10y ago
  See new comments of trial I'm running today - I'm replying to my main post as I go. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12916309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12916309
rufius 10y ago
I see Parallels isn't in that list of software. Is there a reason you don't use it?
- jlgaddis 10y ago
  Not OP but I, personally, stopped using Fusion because of the constant annoying advertisements. I could understand if it were free but I paid a non-trivial amount for it out-of-pocket. I can't complain about Parallels' performance. I was satisfied with it in that regard.
  - pktgen 10y ago
    I assume you mean Parallels in the first paragraph? I use Fusion and have never seen an ad in it.
    - jlgaddis 10y ago
      Oops. Yes, thanks.
- mrmondo 10y ago
  Parallels is even slower than VirtualBox and it's like Duplo to Lego, 'Parallels - my first VM'
  - rufius 10y ago
    Source on VirtualBox being faster? Couple of benchmarks I've seen put VirtualBox at considerably slower[1] and Fusion slightly to considerably faster than Parallels. 1- https://www.tekrevue.com/2015-vm-benchmarks-parallels-11-vs-fusion-8/7/ https://www.tekrevue.com/2015-vm-benchmarks-parallels-11-vs-...
mrmondo 10y ago
OK just re-tested with the latest version (which is very different looking for sure) on the latest OSX on my top specced late 2015 iMac 5K 27''. I mounted the latest CentOS 7 ISO image, completely standard and md5 summed, it boots to install and I have no keyboard or mouse control OR the VM is immediately frozen. Seemed to boot faster than Fusion which is an improvement from the last time I tried. I'll next try a shudder Windows 10 shudder VM.
- mrmondo 10y ago
  I just re-tried installing CentOS 7 for the 4th time from the install DVD again and mouse / keyboard randomly works!? I don't think it was user error, but I'm not convinced it was a bug in the software either, perhaps my desktop was blocking usb access for some reason. Performance of the install seems a LOT better than last time I tried. Will report back.
  - mrmondo 10y ago
    I found that bridged networking does not work at all, no traffic flows, but the default 'shared' networking works perfectly. I'm now doing an update of CentOS and will install the latest stable kernel from elrepo kernel-ml and fio, then I'll benchmark disk IO (I'm running a PCIe NVMe SSD that averages 1600-2000MB/s for sequential writes/reads so this should be interesting)
    - mrmondo 10y ago
      All went well with the update as expect, nice to have a modern kernel running, clearly a lot quicker, boots in around half a second after the BIOS. Points of note thus far: - Unsure if EFI is supported? - Seems to be no way to create templates - Cannot import a single file OVF image - Cannot clone a VM - Cannot snapshot a VM - While importing a VM, you can't access the main window to start / edit other VMs UPDATE: scratch that - you can - but it's slow as anything even with none of my computers resources maxed out, it appears to be single threaded and perhaps some locking is occuring on the GUI. - DISCARD / TRIM SSD support works perfectly as expected, unlike in VMware.

by mrmondo 10y ago

mrweasel 10y ago

VMware Fusion isn't discontinued. I might be wrong, but wasn't the last update in September? And you can still buy it from VMware.

nailer 10y ago
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/27/vmware_fusion_and_workstation_development_team_fired/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/27/vmware_fusion_and_wo... Entire team got fired, but yes still being maintained from a new team of outsourced devs.
- sdegutis 10y ago
  Whoa. Why in the world could that have happened? Article doesn't really go into any theories.
  - danesparza 10y ago
    I would imagine sales numbers wouldn't justify a full US based development team in 'maintenance mode'. Unfortunately, their annual reports don't breakout revenue by product: http://ir.vmware.com/overview/financial-information/annual-reports/default.aspx http://ir.vmware.com/overview/financial-information/annual-r... The company probably feels they can do just as well (at a lower cost) with outsourced devs.
    - luckman212 10y ago
      Well that is working out horribly so far. Fusion 8.5.x is unusable on 10.12 due to a bug that causes an immediate crash when grabbing input control. I as well as many others reported the bug long ago but they have been unable to fix it. No surprise - the outsourced team is probably still scratching their heads trying to figure out what's what.
      - mhurron 10y ago
        > Fusion 8.5.x is unusable on 10.12 Works for me and many others here, so there's more going on with your setup than just Fusion and Sierra not getting along.
      - wila 10y ago
        Works fine here too, but you are correct that this is a serious issue that people are bumping into. Here's a quote from the product line marketing manager from VMware Fusion on this topic [0] <quote> We're really sorry about this situation, but rest assured it's our #1 bug right now. It's technically both our and Apple's bug. The default behaviour of something we always called/did was changed in a later near-final build of 10.12, and that introduced this bug. We and Apple are working together but like always we can't disclose timelines. Please note that we are absolutely working on resolving this issue and issuing an update as soon as we can. </quote> [0] https://communities.vmware.com/message/2630278#2630278 https://communities.vmware.com/message/2630278#2630278
  - cmurf 10y ago
    Why would/should Dell care about virtualization on macOS?
    - sjwright 10y ago
      For the same reason any company should care about any product? Because selling goods and services at a profit is a sensible business model?
      - cmurf 10y ago
        What if they estimate it's not worth the effort? Or is misaligned with other interests? e.g. Apple could sell macOS licenses to run in a VM on non-Apple hardware, but they don't. To run macOS per the EULA, it can only be done on Apple hardware.
- pmarreck 10y ago
  oh jesus. somehow this flew under my radar. this isn't good
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jlgaddis 10y ago
The only updates I remember since I last bought Fusion (just over a year ago, not long before their announcement) was a security update (I think that was the one in September you refer to) and perhaps a small point release or two. I'm not really expecting any awesome new features, just bug fixes mostly. As I move (mostly) back to Linux on the desktop, I'd really like to use VMware but I can't rationalize $249 for a product that is quite possible "end of life" (for all practical purposes).

davidcollantes 10y ago

It is the same under macOS 10.12.1. I tried it (can't beat free!), and within a few days I was back on Fusion.

doodyhead 10y ago

Found the same on a 2015 rMBP with max specs (Sierra, 16GB RAM, Core i7). It's much less performant with exactly the same VM as VirtualBox. In fact, it ate my entire CPU while it was running, even when the VM OS (Windows 10) settled down after startup. and was apparently running no CPU-intensive processes. It also crashed twice in the space of an hour, bringing down the entire VM, necessitating a restart. Not touching Veertu again for a long time.

izik_e2 10y ago
Maybe it was because windows update was running in the background?
- doodyhead 10y ago
  Could very well have been a factor. I gave up on it quickly. Repeatedly crashing renders it an unnecessary annoyance. VirtualBox works well enough, is stable and reliable, and Veertu doesn't distinguish itself enough to merit the pain in switching.
mrmondo 10y ago
See new comments of trial I'm running today - I'm replying to my main post as I go. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12916309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12916309

tambourine_man 10y ago

Where did you hear that it was being discontinued?

nailer 10y ago

Totally different results here. I use a Surface Book now but on my Mac (2013 MBA) Veertu destroyed VMware and VirtualBox for interactive latency. Ie, VirtualBox and VMware were slow to the point I'd consider them unusable (I'm latency sensitive, eg, I consider Eclipse to the be same and other people think it's fine). Veertu made me actually test in Edge again. Did you still have VMware or VirtualBox drivers installed? IIRC VMware doesn't actually remove itself when you uninstall it, you have to remove the kmods yourself.

dguaraglia 10y ago
That is weird. I've used Virtualbox and VMWare on my MacBook Pros, and interactive latency has always been indistinguishable from a native application.
klum 10y ago
I'm latency sensitive as well, and just wondering: have you found any virtualization solution on Windows which provides usable performance for Linux guests?
mrmondo 10y ago
See new comments of trial I'm running today - I'm replying to my main post as I go. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12916309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12916309

rufius 10y ago

I see Parallels isn't in that list of software. Is there a reason you don't use it?

jlgaddis 10y ago
Not OP but I, personally, stopped using Fusion because of the constant annoying advertisements. I could understand if it were free but I paid a non-trivial amount for it out-of-pocket. I can't complain about Parallels' performance. I was satisfied with it in that regard.
- pktgen 10y ago
  I assume you mean Parallels in the first paragraph? I use Fusion and have never seen an ad in it.
  - jlgaddis 10y ago
    Oops. Yes, thanks.
mrmondo 10y ago
Parallels is even slower than VirtualBox and it's like Duplo to Lego, 'Parallels - my first VM'
- rufius 10y ago
  Source on VirtualBox being faster? Couple of benchmarks I've seen put VirtualBox at considerably slower[1] and Fusion slightly to considerably faster than Parallels. 1- https://www.tekrevue.com/2015-vm-benchmarks-parallels-11-vs-fusion-8/7/ https://www.tekrevue.com/2015-vm-benchmarks-parallels-11-vs-...

mrmondo 10y ago

OK just re-tested with the latest version (which is very different looking for sure) on the latest OSX on my top specced late 2015 iMac 5K 27''. I mounted the latest CentOS 7 ISO image, completely standard and md5 summed, it boots to install and I have no keyboard or mouse control OR the VM is immediately frozen. Seemed to boot faster than Fusion which is an improvement from the last time I tried. I'll next try a shudder Windows 10 shudder VM.

mrmondo 10y ago
I just re-tried installing CentOS 7 for the 4th time from the install DVD again and mouse / keyboard randomly works!? I don't think it was user error, but I'm not convinced it was a bug in the software either, perhaps my desktop was blocking usb access for some reason. Performance of the install seems a LOT better than last time I tried. Will report back.
- mrmondo 10y ago
  I found that bridged networking does not work at all, no traffic flows, but the default 'shared' networking works perfectly. I'm now doing an update of CentOS and will install the latest stable kernel from elrepo kernel-ml and fio, then I'll benchmark disk IO (I'm running a PCIe NVMe SSD that averages 1600-2000MB/s for sequential writes/reads so this should be interesting)
  - mrmondo 10y ago
    All went well with the update as expect, nice to have a modern kernel running, clearly a lot quicker, boots in around half a second after the BIOS. Points of note thus far: - Unsure if EFI is supported? - Seems to be no way to create templates - Cannot import a single file OVF image - Cannot clone a VM - Cannot snapshot a VM - While importing a VM, you can't access the main window to start / edit other VMs UPDATE: scratch that - you can - but it's slow as anything even with none of my computers resources maxed out, it appears to be single threaded and perhaps some locking is occuring on the GUI. - DISCARD / TRIM SSD support works perfectly as expected, unlike in VMware.