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This is one of the things I don't understand about modern politics, morally conservative always seem to go towards extreme capitalism and morally progressives t

by xupybd 10y ago

This is one of the things I don't understand about modern politics, morally conservative always seem to go towards extreme capitalism and morally progressives tend to go towards socialism. Personally I'm more middle of the road on socialism VS capitalism. But I tend to vote and align with parties on their moral stance. Even though Trump appears to have a crappy personal Moral standard his policies at least align more with the conservative end. I'd rather a hypocrite that legislates conservatively (Even though that's a really crappy thing to have as the best option). But on the Christian view, there are actually themes in the Bible that talk about a "worker deserving his wage", and "if a man doesn't work he doesn't eat". So I don't know if Christianities version of "Love thy neighbor" is what non Christians think it is. The concept of Love in Christianity doesn't always map to what non Christians see as Love. For example discipline is seen as a form of love. Sometimes doing something that is unpleasant for an individual but helps them in the long run can be seen as love. But to be honest I don't think biblical concepts really align with the left or the right. If I were convinced as you are that Trump wanted to introduce racist policies as president then I'd agree there is no way in good conscience to vote for him. I'm not yet convinced of that and as I'm not American did not bother researching enough to be fully convinced. But then I don't know who I'd have voted for. I'm not a fan of Hillary and then there is the Libertarian and Green candidates, neither really align with my moral views either. It would have been nice if there was a strong moral candidate, but I don't know that either were this election.

maxerickson 10y ago
This is one of the things I don't understand about modern politics, morally conservative always seem to go towards extreme capitalism and morally progressives tend to go towards socialism. A cynical and maybe excessively nasty answer is that people that just care about lower taxes have pandered to moral conservatives in order to get tax cutting representatives elected. The more nuanced answer is probably that there has been a coalition for 30-40 years along those lines. I think over the next several elections, those alignments are going to shift in a big way. Trump doesn't come from the historic coalition, Sanders almost won as an outsider in the Democratic primary. The parties are not well aligned with the electorate.
jahewson 10y ago
The simple explanation is that the left won't touch socially conservative ideas, leaving the right free to pander to that base. Combine this with policies that look like tax cuts to the casual observer and you've got a winning formula, despite that fact that the socially conservative electorate isn't interested in libertarian capitalism at all. Just look at how Trump changed his views on abortion to pander to the social conservatives, and as a consequence won huge evangelical support. So the right has taken the attitude that they don't care about morals, they'll adopt any policy which allows them to win so they can go about pushing the agenda of liberal capitalism for the benefit of themselves. Sure, there are some genuine moralists on the right too - but none of those just won an election.
unprepare 10y ago
>here are actually themes in the Bible that talk about a "worker deserving his wage", and "if a man doesn't work he doesn't eat". wow some fantastic turns of logic you are using. Christian means Christ-like. did Christ preach social darwinism, or did he spend his time with prostitutes and lepers? Did Christ preach having the poor fend for themselves, or did he feed the hungry? Did Christ praise the wealthy, or does he say "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." You can of course interpret your religion as you see fit, but in my eyes, right wing politics is incompatible with being Christ-like.
- noobiemcfoob 10y ago
  There is a lot more to Christianity than being "Christ-like". The parent's point is there exists a healthy serving of many unChrist-like, by your definition, ideas in the Bible. And even then, there is much more to a religion than its holy texts or doctrine. I'd leave it to the practitioners to exhibit what it means to be one of their followers, and it seems the American practitioners haven't noticed this incompatibility you're concerned about.
- xupybd 10y ago
  Those were actual quotes from the bible. I'm not sure how that's a u turn in logic?
  - unprepare 10y ago
    Well, the entire first half of the Bible is before the birth of Christ, and when Christ arrived the religion began whats called the New Covenant with God, replacing the old covenant which bound followers to the old laws of the old testament. something being "in the bible" is meaningless without its context. Theres quite a breadth on the capturing, keeping and treatment of slaves - would you argue that these verses are the same as Christs teachings? >As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. > You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. >You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. But hey, if you think being a Christian means following any phrase you happen to pick out of the Bible, go for it.

by xupybd 10y ago

maxerickson 10y ago

This is one of the things I don't understand about modern politics, morally conservative always seem to go towards extreme capitalism and morally progressives tend to go towards socialism. A cynical and maybe excessively nasty answer is that people that just care about lower taxes have pandered to moral conservatives in order to get tax cutting representatives elected. The more nuanced answer is probably that there has been a coalition for 30-40 years along those lines. I think over the next several elections, those alignments are going to shift in a big way. Trump doesn't come from the historic coalition, Sanders almost won as an outsider in the Democratic primary. The parties are not well aligned with the electorate.

jahewson 10y ago

The simple explanation is that the left won't touch socially conservative ideas, leaving the right free to pander to that base. Combine this with policies that look like tax cuts to the casual observer and you've got a winning formula, despite that fact that the socially conservative electorate isn't interested in libertarian capitalism at all. Just look at how Trump changed his views on abortion to pander to the social conservatives, and as a consequence won huge evangelical support. So the right has taken the attitude that they don't care about morals, they'll adopt any policy which allows them to win so they can go about pushing the agenda of liberal capitalism for the benefit of themselves. Sure, there are some genuine moralists on the right too - but none of those just won an election.

unprepare 10y ago

>here are actually themes in the Bible that talk about a "worker deserving his wage", and "if a man doesn't work he doesn't eat". wow some fantastic turns of logic you are using. Christian means Christ-like. did Christ preach social darwinism, or did he spend his time with prostitutes and lepers? Did Christ preach having the poor fend for themselves, or did he feed the hungry? Did Christ praise the wealthy, or does he say "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." You can of course interpret your religion as you see fit, but in my eyes, right wing politics is incompatible with being Christ-like.

noobiemcfoob 10y ago
There is a lot more to Christianity than being "Christ-like". The parent's point is there exists a healthy serving of many unChrist-like, by your definition, ideas in the Bible. And even then, there is much more to a religion than its holy texts or doctrine. I'd leave it to the practitioners to exhibit what it means to be one of their followers, and it seems the American practitioners haven't noticed this incompatibility you're concerned about.
xupybd 10y ago
Those were actual quotes from the bible. I'm not sure how that's a u turn in logic?
- unprepare 10y ago
  Well, the entire first half of the Bible is before the birth of Christ, and when Christ arrived the religion began whats called the New Covenant with God, replacing the old covenant which bound followers to the old laws of the old testament. something being "in the bible" is meaningless without its context. Theres quite a breadth on the capturing, keeping and treatment of slaves - would you argue that these verses are the same as Christs teachings? >As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. > You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. >You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. But hey, if you think being a Christian means following any phrase you happen to pick out of the Bible, go for it.