7 ms·

By nice relations you mean: sure take Ukraine and we don't care about Baltic states?

by zn44 10y ago

rdtsc 10y ago
Why doesn't EU take care of that? They are closer, it is right in their backyard it affects them more?
- teekert 10y ago
  The EU is already taking Ukraine. Not by force but by politics, we already helped Poroshenko in place there. too bad some countries prefer not to associate with corruption ridden Ukraine [0]. But hey, EU leaders usually don't care what voters think (we got the Treaty of Lisbon after we voted no on the EU constitution). [0] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35976086 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35976086
- zn44 10y ago
  EU surprisingly did take strong position when Ukraine crisis started. Only way EU countries can stand against Russia is if they have backing of NATO. Without this noone will take the risk.
- dancryer 10y ago
  In part at least, because two of those countries are NATO members and thus all other NATO members have a duty to protect them.
- jessedhillon 10y ago
  Because we have a vested interest in keeping peace in Europe. As a country it has worked to our advantage to keep large markets under our protection. Having a dumpster fire in your neighborhood is bad for business.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    If you wanted to avoid fires, playing with matches (read: extending NATO to the border of Russia) wasn't exactly a clever plan.
    - jessedhillon 10y ago
      Extending the zone of safe and free society is definitely in our interests. I don't know when it became in vogue to openly shit on the Democratic Peace Theory, but it's certainly not for a lack of evidence. I guess it's something that you people have committed us to relearning.
      - icebraining 10y ago
        But you didn't extend the zone of safe and free society; if anything, you reduced it. And it's not like you can claim it was an unforeseen consequence: Russia told you explicitly that they would "take military and other steps along its borders if ex-Soviet Ukraine and Georgia join NATO" [1], an then they proceeded to do just that in Georgia [2]. So you poked the bear without having any way to contain it, and you shouldn't be surprised that people blame you for it having razed the village. [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-nato-steps-idUSL1143027920080411 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-nato-steps-idUSL114... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War
iwintermute 10y ago
Why do russia need baltic states? Name at least one reason. It seems that's just baltic horror. I can see only few microscopic countries without resources of strategic significance but with dead economies and most of young population in other EU countries. But yeah "Russia really wants to conquer us"
- zn44 10y ago
  Why did Russia need Crimea and Eastern Ukraine?
  - iwintermute 10y ago
    Crimea - it's were russian navi is. The former soviet military harbors for Black sea were rented by Russia. When power changed in the Ukraine to be USA/NATO oriented Russia did everything to keep it's military presence. As for Eastern Ukraine - I feel like Russia doesn't need it per se - just as distraction and zone of destabilization in order to protect Crimea.
  - konart 10y ago
    Russia needs Crimea to secure it's excess to the Black see. Losing Crimea to NATO (or losing it at all) would be a huge problem. As long as you have Crimea - you basically control most of the Black Sea. As for the Eastern Ukraine - best case scenario - securing a terrain pass to Crimea. Worst case scenario - destabilisation of the the country and more 'ground' during negotiations over any deal. Almost like taking hostages. Baltics don't have such values.
    - arpa 10y ago
      oh yeah? How about Kaliningrad, a military base, not being an enclave anymore?
      - iwintermute 10y ago
        Military base is not stronghold anymore. You don't need to protect it from siege. Kaliningrad is just a place of location of strategic missiles of medium range. It single-use weapon. You don't need ground path to Kalinigrad.

By nice relations you mean: sure take Ukraine and we don't care about Baltic states?

by zn44 10y ago

By nice relations you mean: sure take Ukraine and we don't care about Baltic states?

rdtsc 10y ago

Why doesn't EU take care of that? They are closer, it is right in their backyard it affects them more?

teekert 10y ago
The EU is already taking Ukraine. Not by force but by politics, we already helped Poroshenko in place there. too bad some countries prefer not to associate with corruption ridden Ukraine [0]. But hey, EU leaders usually don't care what voters think (we got the Treaty of Lisbon after we voted no on the EU constitution). [0] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35976086 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35976086
zn44 10y ago
EU surprisingly did take strong position when Ukraine crisis started. Only way EU countries can stand against Russia is if they have backing of NATO. Without this noone will take the risk.
dancryer 10y ago
In part at least, because two of those countries are NATO members and thus all other NATO members have a duty to protect them.
jessedhillon 10y ago
Because we have a vested interest in keeping peace in Europe. As a country it has worked to our advantage to keep large markets under our protection. Having a dumpster fire in your neighborhood is bad for business.
- icebraining 10y ago
  If you wanted to avoid fires, playing with matches (read: extending NATO to the border of Russia) wasn't exactly a clever plan.
  - jessedhillon 10y ago
    Extending the zone of safe and free society is definitely in our interests. I don't know when it became in vogue to openly shit on the Democratic Peace Theory, but it's certainly not for a lack of evidence. I guess it's something that you people have committed us to relearning.
    - icebraining 10y ago
      But you didn't extend the zone of safe and free society; if anything, you reduced it. And it's not like you can claim it was an unforeseen consequence: Russia told you explicitly that they would "take military and other steps along its borders if ex-Soviet Ukraine and Georgia join NATO" [1], an then they proceeded to do just that in Georgia [2]. So you poked the bear without having any way to contain it, and you shouldn't be surprised that people blame you for it having razed the village. [1] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-nato-steps-idUSL1143027920080411 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-nato-steps-idUSL114... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

iwintermute 10y ago

Why do russia need baltic states? Name at least one reason. It seems that's just baltic horror. I can see only few microscopic countries without resources of strategic significance but with dead economies and most of young population in other EU countries. But yeah "Russia really wants to conquer us"

zn44 10y ago
Why did Russia need Crimea and Eastern Ukraine?
- iwintermute 10y ago
  Crimea - it's were russian navi is. The former soviet military harbors for Black sea were rented by Russia. When power changed in the Ukraine to be USA/NATO oriented Russia did everything to keep it's military presence. As for Eastern Ukraine - I feel like Russia doesn't need it per se - just as distraction and zone of destabilization in order to protect Crimea.
- konart 10y ago
  Russia needs Crimea to secure it's excess to the Black see. Losing Crimea to NATO (or losing it at all) would be a huge problem. As long as you have Crimea - you basically control most of the Black Sea. As for the Eastern Ukraine - best case scenario - securing a terrain pass to Crimea. Worst case scenario - destabilisation of the the country and more 'ground' during negotiations over any deal. Almost like taking hostages. Baltics don't have such values.
  - arpa 10y ago
    oh yeah? How about Kaliningrad, a military base, not being an enclave anymore?
    - iwintermute 10y ago
      Military base is not stronghold anymore. You don't need to protect it from siege. Kaliningrad is just a place of location of strategic missiles of medium range. It single-use weapon. You don't need ground path to Kalinigrad.