11 ms·

Regarding the difference between polls and election results: maybe many people are racist, sexist xenophobes and if they tell the preference in public, they get

by ant6n 10y ago

Regarding the difference between polls and election results: maybe many people are racist, sexist xenophobes and if they tell the preference in public, they get rightfully derided for it. But with the secrecy of the ballot, they can give into their deep desire to kick out the Muslims and the Blacks, kick the females back into the kitchen and make America white again.

gcp 10y ago
they get rightfully derided for it Yeah but one could have observed that shouting/bullying down someone because of their beliefs is counterproductive in getting them to reconsider them. It's not like there wasn't any warning to this.
yummyfajitas 10y ago
There are other reasons to support Trump. Being an unorthodox person who they perceived as nonjudgemental, quite a few people have confided in me that they like him. Only one of these people was white, several were female, and none are particularly racist. Reasons I've been told include: - A "fuck you" to the establishment and orthodoxy. - A belief that Hillary is corrupt. - Entertainment value. One Trump voter I know also donated to Hillary in order to get the "Woman Card": https://shop.hillaryclinton.com/products/the-woman-card https://shop.hillaryclinton.com/products/the-woman-card - A support for nationalism and economic populism. - A belief that Trump can do for the country what he did for Wolman skating rink: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/features/2015-09-29/a-1980s-new-york-city-battle-explains-donald-trump-s-candidacy http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/features/2015-09-29/a-1980... (I think Peter Thiel falls into this category.) I know it's tempting to level the worst insult you can think of - raaaciiiissstt - against anyone who disagrees with you. Consider the possibility that this is what allowed Trump to win in the first place.
- ant6n 10y ago
  I've done a fair bit of arguing with the folks here on HN, it's interesting because it doesn't match the echo chamber I have on twitter or facebook. There seem to be a lot of Trump supporter here, which I find very surprising. This idea keeps coming up again and again that using the word 'racist' in the context of the Trump campaign is essentially name-calling, an insult. The problem is, racism is a big, big, big issue. And Trump is a racist bigot, you simply cannot deny it. That's why people that are described as 'on the left' feel so strongly about him. It's not 'pulling the race card', it's an actual big problem. America has spent 200 years trying to overcome it, and it's still so far behind. The open racism displayed by Trump is the reason why so many people viscerally hate him. Add to it the sexism (and sexual assault), the bullying, and the xenophobia, and the support for him becomes essentially unfathomable for many who consider his attitudes and behaviors completely incompatible with basic democratic values. The article posted calls it smug, the commuter above called it 'not tolerating dissent'. I would call it a zero tolerance policy on racism, sexism, bullying and xenophobia.
  - xupybd 10y ago
    Do you have any examples of what you call racism from Trump. I haven't been following him super close (not American), but from what I've seen he wants to tighten up immigration. It's my understanding that this is not racism, but protectionism. Here in NZ it's very hard for people to immigrate here (I have had friends have to leave) but we don't associate racism with tight immigration policy.
    - ant6n 10y ago
      The Huffpost did a round-up: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-exam... For example there were proposals to not allow Muslims to immigrate to the US. There was calling Mexicans 'criminals' and 'rapists'. Beating of black people at Trump rallies (which he endorsed). This shows up this night on my twitter feed: "I am at a Trump rally in Manhattan, and thousands are chanting 'We hate Muslims, we hate blacks, we want our great country back'. Disgusting" https://twitter.com/SRowntreeNews/status/796141495573155840 https://twitter.com/SRowntreeNews/status/796141495573155840
      - cheald 10y ago
        I'm a little suspicious of that tweet. Seems like that's the sort of thing that would show up on at least one cell phone video somewhere.
      - xupybd 10y ago
        Fair enough if the stuff with Trump Management Corporation and his action at the casino are correct I'd say it's a fair call he's probably a bit racist. Not allowing Muslims in could be seen as racist, but I don't know that was at the core of what he was trying to do. Don't get me wrong I don't think it's a good idea. But 100% of radical Islamic terrorist are Muslim so banning them would have made people less afraid of the radical Islamic threat the media were hyping up as ISIS was taking hold of Iraq. It's dumb and unfairly treats good honest safe people, but racist is a stretch. That tweet holds little water with me each side has been mud slinging, most of the time it's either BS or an exaggeration.
- snsr 10y ago
  I realize you think you're being creatively reductive, but Romney is a fucking racist. And so are you apparently.
xupybd 10y ago
This is the issue. People did not vote Trump to satisfy hateful racism and sexism, they voted Trump despite everyone painting them as racist sexist pigs. The other option was so far from what they wanted they had little choice. Please try to understand why people disagree with you, why the majority disagrees with you.
- ant6n 10y ago
  The problem is, I don't buy it. I don't believe it. I listen to how Trump talks, how Trump supporters talk, all the racism, the sexism, the xenophobia, it's just not right. There's no excuse. It's the beginning of fascism. Btw, I'm German. (I've lived in North America for more than ten years)
  - xupybd 10y ago
    Trumps treatment of women in the past makes my skin crawl, as an individual I think his behavior on that count is despicable. But if I were given the option of Hillary or Trump I'd vote Trump. I might be wrong but I've not heard him say anything that is racist. No doubt there are some that are supporting him because they're racist, that doesn't mean all are. On that note I would love someone to prove me wrong and show me a clear example of Trump actually being racist. I'm a conservative Christian. As a conservative, the left look down on me and assume there is only ignorance fueling my world view. There are issue like abortion, that to me are like the holocaust. I know most don't agree with me on that, and I can understand that they don't see a fetus as a life, I get it. But imagine for a second that you were firmly convinced that a fetus was as much a life as a new born. Things like that will drive you to vote Trump despite hating some of his actions. The left also treats Christians with disdain. You have to get people on side if you want them to vote for you. Not tell them they're idiots. While I don't agree with them some see gun rights as fundamentals to their freedom. You can't just tell these people were going to restrict guns, you have to get them to believe that it's for the best. Not tell them they're idiots. Then call them racist sexist bigots when they don't vote your way. Immigration in the states is not in a good way, having so many people living illegally is not good for anyone. Trump might sound harsh but at least he is willing to tackle the problem (even in a way I'd not go for).
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by ant6n 10y ago

gcp 10y ago

they get rightfully derided for it Yeah but one could have observed that shouting/bullying down someone because of their beliefs is counterproductive in getting them to reconsider them. It's not like there wasn't any warning to this.

yummyfajitas 10y ago

There are other reasons to support Trump. Being an unorthodox person who they perceived as nonjudgemental, quite a few people have confided in me that they like him. Only one of these people was white, several were female, and none are particularly racist. Reasons I've been told include: - A "fuck you" to the establishment and orthodoxy. - A belief that Hillary is corrupt. - Entertainment value. One Trump voter I know also donated to Hillary in order to get the "Woman Card": https://shop.hillaryclinton.com/products/the-woman-card https://shop.hillaryclinton.com/products/the-woman-card - A support for nationalism and economic populism. - A belief that Trump can do for the country what he did for Wolman skating rink: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/features/2015-09-29/a-1980s-new-york-city-battle-explains-donald-trump-s-candidacy http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/features/2015-09-29/a-1980... (I think Peter Thiel falls into this category.) I know it's tempting to level the worst insult you can think of - raaaciiiissstt - against anyone who disagrees with you. Consider the possibility that this is what allowed Trump to win in the first place.

ant6n 10y ago
I've done a fair bit of arguing with the folks here on HN, it's interesting because it doesn't match the echo chamber I have on twitter or facebook. There seem to be a lot of Trump supporter here, which I find very surprising. This idea keeps coming up again and again that using the word 'racist' in the context of the Trump campaign is essentially name-calling, an insult. The problem is, racism is a big, big, big issue. And Trump is a racist bigot, you simply cannot deny it. That's why people that are described as 'on the left' feel so strongly about him. It's not 'pulling the race card', it's an actual big problem. America has spent 200 years trying to overcome it, and it's still so far behind. The open racism displayed by Trump is the reason why so many people viscerally hate him. Add to it the sexism (and sexual assault), the bullying, and the xenophobia, and the support for him becomes essentially unfathomable for many who consider his attitudes and behaviors completely incompatible with basic democratic values. The article posted calls it smug, the commuter above called it 'not tolerating dissent'. I would call it a zero tolerance policy on racism, sexism, bullying and xenophobia.
- xupybd 10y ago
  Do you have any examples of what you call racism from Trump. I haven't been following him super close (not American), but from what I've seen he wants to tighten up immigration. It's my understanding that this is not racism, but protectionism. Here in NZ it's very hard for people to immigrate here (I have had friends have to leave) but we don't associate racism with tight immigration policy.
  - ant6n 10y ago
    The Huffpost did a round-up: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-exam... For example there were proposals to not allow Muslims to immigrate to the US. There was calling Mexicans 'criminals' and 'rapists'. Beating of black people at Trump rallies (which he endorsed). This shows up this night on my twitter feed: "I am at a Trump rally in Manhattan, and thousands are chanting 'We hate Muslims, we hate blacks, we want our great country back'. Disgusting" https://twitter.com/SRowntreeNews/status/796141495573155840 https://twitter.com/SRowntreeNews/status/796141495573155840
    - cheald 10y ago
      I'm a little suspicious of that tweet. Seems like that's the sort of thing that would show up on at least one cell phone video somewhere.
    - xupybd 10y ago
      Fair enough if the stuff with Trump Management Corporation and his action at the casino are correct I'd say it's a fair call he's probably a bit racist. Not allowing Muslims in could be seen as racist, but I don't know that was at the core of what he was trying to do. Don't get me wrong I don't think it's a good idea. But 100% of radical Islamic terrorist are Muslim so banning them would have made people less afraid of the radical Islamic threat the media were hyping up as ISIS was taking hold of Iraq. It's dumb and unfairly treats good honest safe people, but racist is a stretch. That tweet holds little water with me each side has been mud slinging, most of the time it's either BS or an exaggeration.
snsr 10y ago
I realize you think you're being creatively reductive, but Romney is a fucking racist. And so are you apparently.

xupybd 10y ago

This is the issue. People did not vote Trump to satisfy hateful racism and sexism, they voted Trump despite everyone painting them as racist sexist pigs. The other option was so far from what they wanted they had little choice. Please try to understand why people disagree with you, why the majority disagrees with you.

ant6n 10y ago
The problem is, I don't buy it. I don't believe it. I listen to how Trump talks, how Trump supporters talk, all the racism, the sexism, the xenophobia, it's just not right. There's no excuse. It's the beginning of fascism. Btw, I'm German. (I've lived in North America for more than ten years)
- xupybd 10y ago
  Trumps treatment of women in the past makes my skin crawl, as an individual I think his behavior on that count is despicable. But if I were given the option of Hillary or Trump I'd vote Trump. I might be wrong but I've not heard him say anything that is racist. No doubt there are some that are supporting him because they're racist, that doesn't mean all are. On that note I would love someone to prove me wrong and show me a clear example of Trump actually being racist. I'm a conservative Christian. As a conservative, the left look down on me and assume there is only ignorance fueling my world view. There are issue like abortion, that to me are like the holocaust. I know most don't agree with me on that, and I can understand that they don't see a fetus as a life, I get it. But imagine for a second that you were firmly convinced that a fetus was as much a life as a new born. Things like that will drive you to vote Trump despite hating some of his actions. The left also treats Christians with disdain. You have to get people on side if you want them to vote for you. Not tell them they're idiots. While I don't agree with them some see gun rights as fundamentals to their freedom. You can't just tell these people were going to restrict guns, you have to get them to believe that it's for the best. Not tell them they're idiots. Then call them racist sexist bigots when they don't vote your way. Immigration in the states is not in a good way, having so many people living illegally is not good for anyone. Trump might sound harsh but at least he is willing to tackle the problem (even in a way I'd not go for).

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]