4 ms·

Software development and IT jobs that moved to India and China are blue collar? Call centers?

Mikeb85 10y ago
> Software development and IT jobs that moved to India and China are blue collar? Call centers? They're working class. Maybe not traditionally blue collar, but yes.
- WillPostForFood 10y ago
  IT and software jobs are as white collar as it gets. Call centers, maybe that's a new economy blue collar.
  - gaius 10y ago
    Nope, in the UK any tech job is "blue collar", that's how the old class system still works.
    - ploika 10y ago
      I've literally never seen any evidence of that being the case.
    - umanwizard 10y ago
      Nobody is talking about the old British class system in this thread so that doesn't appear to be the relevant context.
      - gaius 10y ago
        Of course it is, unless you don't think IT outsourcing is "a thing"? It is literally no different to the factory or shipyard or steel mill closing in country X and reopening in country Y.
        WillPostForFood 10y ago
        We are talking about the US election voting splits, so the British definition is interesting, but not relevant. In the US, blue collar usually means some sort of physical labor. If you are sitting at a desk, it is white collar, no matter how menial the task.
    - samradelie 10y ago
      As an American software developer working perm in London for 5 years and now returning to California ( ;_; ) , I can say that salaries are 3-4 times higher in the US for the same role. Just converting the currencies.
      - tajen 10y ago
        Out of topic: I saw your other comment, I can't upvote it because it's dead (probably for other reasons), but thank you very much for your testimonial, support and encouragement.
    - timeSl 10y ago
      I hear this a lot, but do you mean more IT/technician jobs than software engineering/developing? I'm reasonably sensitive to class particulars and I'm pretty sure software engineering is middle class. Or at least, exactly the same as mechanical/design engineers
      - walshemj 10y ago
        Its still considered a " profession" i.e. in the A or B classification
  - mantas 10y ago
    What's the difference between software engineer and oil or mechanical engineer? Same education, same pay, same collar. Management of any of them would be white collar though. It's not about wether your hands get dirty.
    - WillPostForFood 10y ago
      They are white collar as well, I just singled out software engineers because it is a type of job that is well know to be outsourced. Not sure if that is as true if oil or mechanical engineers.
    - saalweachter 10y ago
      Differential equations.
  - dzhiurgis 10y ago
    To me IT is blue collar, even programming is becoming blue collar too. My friend's words were eye opener. Programming is like welding. Different languages are like different types of welding. You've got your MIG, TIG, Oxy-Acetilene. It's just the matter of learning the API.
    - pryelluw 10y ago
      Yes, programming is a trade. Which is perfectly fine.
    - Scea91 10y ago
      If someone states that programming is only about learning APIs then I automatically assign him to the 'code monkey' category.
    - Mieaou 10y ago
      By that definition, any job requiring specific skill training is blue collar, accountants, surgeons, lawyers, .. Maybe the only 'white collar' jobs left would be politicians and sales?
      - uremog 10y ago
        Some people consider public speaking and charisma to be learnable skills.
- devonkim 10y ago
  Lower skill may be the important distinction rather than whether it's manual labor intensive or not like we traditionally view in the US. Sitting at a computer at a click farm in a developing country is completely different than sitting and writing options trading algorithms. On the other hand, I can't think of anyone that became a wealthy by sweeping floors, hammering nails, and greeting customers at the door regardless of their country or region.
r00fus 10y ago
See that's the thing, first blue collar, then white collar and eventually the entire economy is gutted to serve the rich who really don't care where the live as long as it's nice and they can remain rich. All a result of successive trade agreements that destabilize both economies involved to cater to the elite few on both sides. Think: That "giant sucking sound" crossed with Niemoller.
- saisasidhar 10y ago
  >...the entire economy is gutted to serve the rich who really don't care where the live as long as it's nice and they can remain rich. Donald Trump is also rich. What if he also make policies that benefit his organisation and his associates ?
  - r00fus 10y ago
    He most certainly will. That's how he rolls.
    - sjwright 10y ago
      Maybe. It's possible that this self-obsessed ogre realises through the machinations of the political system that he can still be a "winner" without focusing on the accumulation of personal wealth. Remember, from January he is running for a second term and he's set a hilariously high bar for himself. If he doesn't make his existing voter base very happy in 2-3 years, he's toast.
crucialfelix 10y ago
By definition White Collar jobs are done in offices; so that includes all IT and Call Centers. Blue Collar is manual labor. It's probably time to proclaim a new color for working class white collars.
- efaref 10y ago
  Call centers aren't really offices, though. They look like this: http://www.savalinews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Call-Center.jpg http://www.savalinews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Call-Ce... Which look very similar to this: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d4/84/2b/d4842bd142f8e1970718cb7fad1ff8a9.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d4/84/2b/d484... The main difference is the machine is a calling machine instead of a sewing machine. Call centers are more like call mills, and those people are definitely wearing shirts with blue collars.

> Software development and IT jobs that moved to India and China are blue collar? Call centers? They're working class. Maybe not traditionally blue collar, but yes.

WillPostForFood 10y ago
IT and software jobs are as white collar as it gets. Call centers, maybe that's a new economy blue collar.
- gaius 10y ago
  Nope, in the UK any tech job is "blue collar", that's how the old class system still works.
  - ploika 10y ago
    I've literally never seen any evidence of that being the case.
  - umanwizard 10y ago
    Nobody is talking about the old British class system in this thread so that doesn't appear to be the relevant context.
    - gaius 10y ago
      Of course it is, unless you don't think IT outsourcing is "a thing"? It is literally no different to the factory or shipyard or steel mill closing in country X and reopening in country Y.
      - WillPostForFood 10y ago
        We are talking about the US election voting splits, so the British definition is interesting, but not relevant. In the US, blue collar usually means some sort of physical labor. If you are sitting at a desk, it is white collar, no matter how menial the task.
  - samradelie 10y ago
    As an American software developer working perm in London for 5 years and now returning to California ( ;_; ) , I can say that salaries are 3-4 times higher in the US for the same role. Just converting the currencies.
    - tajen 10y ago
      Out of topic: I saw your other comment, I can't upvote it because it's dead (probably for other reasons), but thank you very much for your testimonial, support and encouragement.
  - timeSl 10y ago
    I hear this a lot, but do you mean more IT/technician jobs than software engineering/developing? I'm reasonably sensitive to class particulars and I'm pretty sure software engineering is middle class. Or at least, exactly the same as mechanical/design engineers
    - walshemj 10y ago
      Its still considered a " profession" i.e. in the A or B classification
- mantas 10y ago
  What's the difference between software engineer and oil or mechanical engineer? Same education, same pay, same collar. Management of any of them would be white collar though. It's not about wether your hands get dirty.
  - WillPostForFood 10y ago
    They are white collar as well, I just singled out software engineers because it is a type of job that is well know to be outsourced. Not sure if that is as true if oil or mechanical engineers.
  - saalweachter 10y ago
    Differential equations.
- dzhiurgis 10y ago
  To me IT is blue collar, even programming is becoming blue collar too. My friend's words were eye opener. Programming is like welding. Different languages are like different types of welding. You've got your MIG, TIG, Oxy-Acetilene. It's just the matter of learning the API.
  - pryelluw 10y ago
    Yes, programming is a trade. Which is perfectly fine.
  - Scea91 10y ago
    If someone states that programming is only about learning APIs then I automatically assign him to the 'code monkey' category.
  - Mieaou 10y ago
    By that definition, any job requiring specific skill training is blue collar, accountants, surgeons, lawyers, .. Maybe the only 'white collar' jobs left would be politicians and sales?
    - uremog 10y ago
      Some people consider public speaking and charisma to be learnable skills.
devonkim 10y ago
Lower skill may be the important distinction rather than whether it's manual labor intensive or not like we traditionally view in the US. Sitting at a computer at a click farm in a developing country is completely different than sitting and writing options trading algorithms. On the other hand, I can't think of anyone that became a wealthy by sweeping floors, hammering nails, and greeting customers at the door regardless of their country or region.

r00fus 10y ago

See that's the thing, first blue collar, then white collar and eventually the entire economy is gutted to serve the rich who really don't care where the live as long as it's nice and they can remain rich. All a result of successive trade agreements that destabilize both economies involved to cater to the elite few on both sides. Think: That "giant sucking sound" crossed with Niemoller.

saisasidhar 10y ago
>...the entire economy is gutted to serve the rich who really don't care where the live as long as it's nice and they can remain rich. Donald Trump is also rich. What if he also make policies that benefit his organisation and his associates ?
- r00fus 10y ago
  He most certainly will. That's how he rolls.
  - sjwright 10y ago
    Maybe. It's possible that this self-obsessed ogre realises through the machinations of the political system that he can still be a "winner" without focusing on the accumulation of personal wealth. Remember, from January he is running for a second term and he's set a hilariously high bar for himself. If he doesn't make his existing voter base very happy in 2-3 years, he's toast.

crucialfelix 10y ago

By definition White Collar jobs are done in offices; so that includes all IT and Call Centers. Blue Collar is manual labor. It's probably time to proclaim a new color for working class white collars.

efaref 10y ago
Call centers aren't really offices, though. They look like this: http://www.savalinews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Call-Center.jpg http://www.savalinews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Call-Ce... Which look very similar to this: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d4/84/2b/d4842bd142f8e1970718cb7fad1ff8a9.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d4/84/2b/d484... The main difference is the machine is a calling machine instead of a sewing machine. Call centers are more like call mills, and those people are definitely wearing shirts with blue collars.