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It's not about culture, people are still fine with their culture, it's about economics. Globalisation and corruption has caused a lot more instability for the w

It's not about culture, people are still fine with their culture, it's about economics. Globalisation and corruption has caused a lot more instability for the working class. If you look at polls about what the number one issue was you'll see it's the economy, that's the main thing people are concerned about.

lsc 10y ago
Instability? or the level of opportunity? That's the thing that confused me; it seems to me that introducing a radical to politics would cause more instability; It also seems to me like the economy has been improving by just about all measures for nearly all of Obama's term; especially if you measure improvement in terms of unemployment and the like. Most of the economic problems we have now are problems that the left would complain about. The rich make a lot more than the poor... and the GOP is promising more of that, not less, and the GOP won, so the 'it's the economy' model doesn't really fit.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  > "The rich make a lot more than the poor... and the GOP is promising more of that, not less, and the GOP won, so the 'it's the economy' model doesn't really fit." Here's the thing with Trump, he held so many conflicting policy positions over the course of the election, and was held to account so little by the mainstream media, that Trump supporters could basically line up with whichever of his policies they liked the most. People can ignore promises like tax breaks for the rich when he's promising to bring jobs back to the US. Also, as I said in another comment, this wasn't a pro-Trump victory, it was an anti-Clinton victory, and Clinton has been disastrous with the US economy. She had no compelling rebuttal regarding her support for NAFTA and TPP, the huge (political and economic) disasters of the Iraq war, and had very close ties to Wall Street deregulation that was at the core of the 2008 recession. Clearly business as usual was not going to cut it, and Trump was boosted by that discontent.
  - lsc 10y ago
    >Clearly business as usual was not going to cut it, This is clearly the real disconnect. I think things are going just fine, and the statistics I read say that, well, things are getting better, mostly, for most other people, too. But then, I think free trade is great, and have no problem with NAFTA, just like almost everyone in the political establishment. I thought that protectionism was kind of a fringe thing. Clearly it's not, but that is what I thought before this election.
    - gph 10y ago
      If you travel to some rural areas in the Midwest you'll see that the economy has not been improving for everyone recently. Most of their wages have stagnated while the price of most goods/services has risen. And there isn't much opportunity unless they move to a major urban area. Not everyone wants that. They love where they live, but they've watched their small farming and factory towns crumble. We all know that the majority of the gains in our economic rebound have gone to the wealthy. Stability in an economic sense just means more safe consistent returns for those who own the capital, pushing inequality ever higher. Is it rational to try to disrupt the whole system to spite the few winners? Probably not. But I understand how these people feel. I grew up in a small town in Michigan. Now I live on the East Coast because I need to work. I don't personally mind being displaced, and I'm lucky/skilled enough to find good employment. But not everyone is like me.
      - lsc 10y ago
        Sure, there are always winners and losers; it's just there are more losers when unemployment is high and fewer when it is low. Fewer people are unemployed than last time Obama was elected, and presumably, most of these folks didn't vote against him then, so why now?
        tunap 10y ago
        McMinimum wage and under-employment don't pay the bills. While the stock market tripled in value(sic), stagflation has been reality for most.
PKop 10y ago
Its also culture. Some Americans are fed up with having to be apologetic for supporting their own culture, wanting to maintain it, not wanting it to change drastically. They see hypocrisy in being told to respect other cultures, while being labeled racist and bigot for wanting to maintain their own.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  It depends on how broad a view you want to take of culture. If you look at music, films, food and sport, I see no evidence that American people are enjoying US music, US films, US food and US sport any less than before, regardless of what's happening politically. However, if you include the economy as part of culture, then people certainly were disillusioned, and I don't blame them, kind of hard to enjoy life to the full if you're having to work multiple jobs just to have a decent quality of life.
- leafee 10y ago
  > while being labeled racist and bigot for wanting to maintain their own. Could you give a specific example here, as others have asked? I don't doubt that you feel this way. As an immigrant into the US I initially felt there is too much political correctness going on, which prevented some people from expressing their thoughts clearly, which is never good. But in terms of culture, I am surrounded by, and happily participate in the celebration of American culture. For instance, just to name a few things: - trick or treating in costume with my kids on Halloween - pumpkin carving - lots of bbq-ing in the summer - incredible amount of decoration, shopping and eating during the holidays, Christmas trees - meeting extended family in thanksgiving, eating turkey - wearing green on St Patty's day (not sure if that counts) I also don't meet any Americans who are apologetic about any of these types of cultural expressions. I could argue that diversity and celebration of foreign culture is also a distinctively American trait, but that is a separate point. So my question again would be - can you give an example of a cultural expression or tradition which you would like to see continued, but is disappearing, perhaps due to media pressure from the left?

lsc 10y ago

Instability? or the level of opportunity? That's the thing that confused me; it seems to me that introducing a radical to politics would cause more instability; It also seems to me like the economy has been improving by just about all measures for nearly all of Obama's term; especially if you measure improvement in terms of unemployment and the like. Most of the economic problems we have now are problems that the left would complain about. The rich make a lot more than the poor... and the GOP is promising more of that, not less, and the GOP won, so the 'it's the economy' model doesn't really fit.

ZenoArrow 10y ago
> "The rich make a lot more than the poor... and the GOP is promising more of that, not less, and the GOP won, so the 'it's the economy' model doesn't really fit." Here's the thing with Trump, he held so many conflicting policy positions over the course of the election, and was held to account so little by the mainstream media, that Trump supporters could basically line up with whichever of his policies they liked the most. People can ignore promises like tax breaks for the rich when he's promising to bring jobs back to the US. Also, as I said in another comment, this wasn't a pro-Trump victory, it was an anti-Clinton victory, and Clinton has been disastrous with the US economy. She had no compelling rebuttal regarding her support for NAFTA and TPP, the huge (political and economic) disasters of the Iraq war, and had very close ties to Wall Street deregulation that was at the core of the 2008 recession. Clearly business as usual was not going to cut it, and Trump was boosted by that discontent.
- lsc 10y ago
  >Clearly business as usual was not going to cut it, This is clearly the real disconnect. I think things are going just fine, and the statistics I read say that, well, things are getting better, mostly, for most other people, too. But then, I think free trade is great, and have no problem with NAFTA, just like almost everyone in the political establishment. I thought that protectionism was kind of a fringe thing. Clearly it's not, but that is what I thought before this election.
  - gph 10y ago
    If you travel to some rural areas in the Midwest you'll see that the economy has not been improving for everyone recently. Most of their wages have stagnated while the price of most goods/services has risen. And there isn't much opportunity unless they move to a major urban area. Not everyone wants that. They love where they live, but they've watched their small farming and factory towns crumble. We all know that the majority of the gains in our economic rebound have gone to the wealthy. Stability in an economic sense just means more safe consistent returns for those who own the capital, pushing inequality ever higher. Is it rational to try to disrupt the whole system to spite the few winners? Probably not. But I understand how these people feel. I grew up in a small town in Michigan. Now I live on the East Coast because I need to work. I don't personally mind being displaced, and I'm lucky/skilled enough to find good employment. But not everyone is like me.
    - lsc 10y ago
      Sure, there are always winners and losers; it's just there are more losers when unemployment is high and fewer when it is low. Fewer people are unemployed than last time Obama was elected, and presumably, most of these folks didn't vote against him then, so why now?
      - tunap 10y ago
        McMinimum wage and under-employment don't pay the bills. While the stock market tripled in value(sic), stagflation has been reality for most.

PKop 10y ago

Its also culture. Some Americans are fed up with having to be apologetic for supporting their own culture, wanting to maintain it, not wanting it to change drastically. They see hypocrisy in being told to respect other cultures, while being labeled racist and bigot for wanting to maintain their own.

ZenoArrow 10y ago
It depends on how broad a view you want to take of culture. If you look at music, films, food and sport, I see no evidence that American people are enjoying US music, US films, US food and US sport any less than before, regardless of what's happening politically. However, if you include the economy as part of culture, then people certainly were disillusioned, and I don't blame them, kind of hard to enjoy life to the full if you're having to work multiple jobs just to have a decent quality of life.
leafee 10y ago
> while being labeled racist and bigot for wanting to maintain their own. Could you give a specific example here, as others have asked? I don't doubt that you feel this way. As an immigrant into the US I initially felt there is too much political correctness going on, which prevented some people from expressing their thoughts clearly, which is never good. But in terms of culture, I am surrounded by, and happily participate in the celebration of American culture. For instance, just to name a few things: - trick or treating in costume with my kids on Halloween - pumpkin carving - lots of bbq-ing in the summer - incredible amount of decoration, shopping and eating during the holidays, Christmas trees - meeting extended family in thanksgiving, eating turkey - wearing green on St Patty's day (not sure if that counts) I also don't meet any Americans who are apologetic about any of these types of cultural expressions. I could argue that diversity and celebration of foreign culture is also a distinctively American trait, but that is a separate point. So my question again would be - can you give an example of a cultural expression or tradition which you would like to see continued, but is disappearing, perhaps due to media pressure from the left?