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So as a European ... Clinton didn't spend enough time in the Upper Midwest expecting to carry those states, but Trump had an actual message for them (NAFTA, etc
by sho_hn 10y ago
So as a European ... Clinton didn't spend enough time in the Upper Midwest expecting to carry those states, but Trump had an actual message for them (NAFTA, etc.) while Hillary didn't, and they don't care that he is racist and sexist, they want their jobs back, so the election was called by a 40+ white demo in an economically depressed region just like old Middle England called Brexit. About right?
- hubert123 10y agohe is not racist nor sexist
- thomasahle 10y agoUpper Midwest? Wasn't it just a question of Florida and North Carolina?
- xienze 10y agoNot exactly. He needed those states assuming he didn't win WI, MI, PA, OH. Which he did. Trump blew it out the water.
- sho_hn 10y agoOhio, Pennsylvania, etc. are traditionally Democratic states, but it's a region Trump spent a lot of time targeting with anti-globalist messages around the decline of domestic industry. The predicted safe margin in the other direction, the narrow win, the demographic stats, the issues on the table ... it's all highly reminiscent of how I experienced Brexit.
- maxerickson 10y agoMichigan and Wisconsin were thought to lean Clinton and went Trump. Ohio and Pennsylvania were considered tossups.
- Kadin 10y agoFlorida and North Carolina were considered competitive or "tossup" states, while several of the upper Midwestern states were considered fairly safe Democrat territories, probably because they were historically dominated by unionized manufacturing workers. That latter assumption has proved to be very unsafe, and it's become apparent that many of those formerly-reliable Democrat voters have switched sides, at least for this election.
- Godel_unicode 10y agoThe point is, if she had carried Pennsylvania and Florida, she would have won. The mid-west states she lost don't make up that gap.
- noir-york 10y agoYes. You cannot ignore entire demographics - working class, uneducated etc - and not expect consequences. The Westminster bubble acted as if only London and the SE existed. Clinton and to be fair, most of the political establishment, have been in favour of free trade and NAFTA and ignored the consequences.
- shmerl 10y agoFeels like Brexit indeed. Except it won't help anything with their jobs...
- raverbashing 10y agoSo, just like Brexit then
- peletiah 10y agoWell, we have Strache, Le Pen, Farage, Wilders, Orban, Petry,... And we sure aren't as economically depressed as rural USA. Worse - we have unstable times ahead and people will vote for these populists even more. And even worse - a climate change denier as POTUS exactly at the worst possible time.
- malloryerik 10y agoYes he will kill the COP21 agreement. And what happens when he scuttles the Iranian nuclear deal?
- Senji 10y agoWhat should happen.We tell iran to keep quiet or we nuke them.
- DanTheManPR 10y agoThis kind of attitude is what will bring about the extinction of mankind.
- Senji 10y agoWe're well overdue anyway.
- jlewallen 10y agoThis kind of cavalier talk about unleashing unfathomable misery on innocent people is one of the things that terrifies me most about the future.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- 0xFFC 10y agoAs Iranian student, this scares the shit out of me. With Rohuni we had a little stability, but with this idiot guy Trump, our hard liners got what they wished for. Now ordinary people and educated people in Iran will get pressure from both side. Oh god, I miss Bernie Sanders.
- Someone 10y agoThat's fairly close to #1 on Michael Moore's 5 points from July (http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/ http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/)
- elsurudo 10y agoWow, he was spot on, especially about the rust belt... And Trump ended up getting Florida, too.
- nostrademons 10y agoTBH I don't think there was anything Clinton could've done to alter this election result, other than not being female and (possibly) not getting involved in so many scandals beforehand. This was a widespread popular-vote miss: Clinton lost across a large number of states (PA, WI, MI, FL, NC) that she had polled ahead in, and even in ones she carried (like NH, ME, or MN) the margin of victory was much less than expected. It seems like a large number of Americans just don't like the vision of America that Hillary Clinton represents.
- wyager 10y ago> (possibly) not getting involved in so many scandals beforehand I don't think there's any "possibly" involved here. While I'm no fan of Sanders, I honestly feel like he could have swept the floor with Trump solely based on the fact that he has an impeccable background and seems like a genuinely nice guy. Instead, the DNC shut out Sanders and used dirty tactics to ensure that Clinton got the nomination. That galvanized a non-negligble number of the young people in my social circle against her.
- gscott 10y agoShe could have won it if her platform offered hope and excitement for the future of a regular person. She offered free college education... that doesn't work very well if you quit high school to work in a factory or if you are like me and horrible at math (I can do everything else but that). Job retraining doesn't work very well because many people train for the same thing. One great NPR story had a person who retrained in HVAC but he said that around 100 other people in the plant trained for the same thing unless if people move they need some sort of manual labor job. People who worked in a factory are unlikely to start building websites, apps, manage databases, go into business management etc... they need another factory job or a basic income.
- Klover 10y agoFor the sake of you, me, and all other women out in the world, please don't let Clinton being a woman let the first thing that comes to mind. Your reasoning after that is much more sound and argued. But reinforcing the separation of sexes can only help men. Look at Western Europe: our gender is not even considered, so please don't let people consider it. It can only turn negative. Keep strong, friend.
- melling 10y agoIt's the economy, stupid. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid
- astrodust 10y agoJust wait until the economy actually gets bad. Given how the markets are reacting, that'll be sooner than anyone expected.
- wtallis 10y agoThat catchphrase originated from a campaign that took place during an actual economic recession. The current overall state of the economy was not a decisive factor in this election, though perceptions or fears about it might have been.
- inimino 10y agoClinton losing in the midwest is what the polls missed. The analysis of why and how, that's probably going to be hot topic for a while.
- Godel_unicode 10y agoFlorida and Pennsylvania are not generally considered the mid-west. If she carries Minnesota as projected, they would have been enough.
- prostoalex 10y agoIn 2012 Mitt Romney lost Ohio, Florida, Iowa, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, which Trump now won, some solidly, some barely. With no major demographic shift there, seems also fair to assume a good portion of the voting-age population in those states saw no noticeable improvement in the past 4 years.
- B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago> they don't care that he is racist and sexist, They don't care that he got called racist and sexist. They know it's a club regularly used to bludgeon opponents.
- zigzigzag 10y agoBrexit wasn't called by "economically depressed old Middle England". Everywhere outside of Scotland and the cities voted for it.
- TheGirondin 10y agoSimply put, rural or blue collar Americans only have one place in America where they are represented on the national level: the ballot box. All of the shocked media people live in a bubble and have no idea what it's like to live in a working class community.