8 ms·

Well good news! Now you won't have it at all. Wait until you try medical bankruptcy on for size.

by M_Grey 10y ago

andars 10y ago
I will assume that gozur88 has some source on the 85% increase. If that isn't true, ignore this. A prerequisite for an 85% increase is some payment beforehand. If they had no health insurance, they wouldn't have been paying for health insurance, and therefore their rates could not increase.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- bobwaycott 10y ago
  My guess is an increase compared to the first-year prices under the ACA. Nobody who talks about the premium increases does so from the perspective that those who are impacted by the increases started at zero. I've seen mine nearly double each enrollment period.
gozur88 10y ago
Sure, because anyone can afford $2500/month. It's practically free.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  Just wait until you have to pony up $3000 for one MRI.
  - slowmotiony 10y ago
    That... sounds like a better deal to me?
    - gozur88 10y ago
      That's what I was thinking. As long as I don't get more than six MRIs a year I come out ahead.
      - gcp 10y ago
        The problem with this reasoning (and by extension, any system where there's a possibility to opt out of healthcare) is that if you have a serious ailment that you can't afford to treat, we have to let you die. But I believe even in the USA you will get (emergency) treatment and the bills racked up, right?
        gozur88 10y ago
        Yeah, that's true. The problem now is health care plans are so expensive the right thing to do from a green-eyeshades perspective is to pay the fine for not having a plan and go to the ER if you have a problem.
        kofejnik 10y ago
        The problem with insurance is that literally everyone will have a serious ailment one day. Very few people die instantly, huge majority of deaths are from cancer and cardiovascular
        gcp 10y ago
        This isn't a problem with insurance. You just let the ones without die off. It's a problem because humans are wussies that can't live with their decisions.
        gozur88 10y ago
        Cardiovascular problems aren't necessarily expensive. Sometimes people just drop dead. There's the cost of an ambulance ride and some hubbub in the ER, but that wouldn't make a dent in the amount they paid in. The real problem with insurance is there are people with long-term, expensive medical conditions who will never, in their entire lives, make enough money to pay for their treatment. That just doesn't work under an insurance model.
- xupybd 10y ago
  Why is healthcare so expensive in the states? People seem to focus on private Heath insurance vs Obama care. But neither should be so expensive. Why are other countries able to provide way cheaper care?
  - ozzy6009 10y ago
    1. The USA has the best doctors and hospitals. The marginal benefit to having better doctors and hospitals is completely dwarfed by their higher prices. Would you be willing to pay 2x to have a 5% better chance of no complications on a surgery for a rare condition? Well the USA does exactly that. 2. The USA subsidizes drug development for the rest of the world. All the R&D happens here, and the only reason so much money is spent on this R&D is because the drug companies can charge maximum price to Americans. Other countries negotiate as a block to lower prices. This is great for those countries (cheaper drugs) and the drug companies (marginally expanded markets), but it increases the fraction of money from the US going to that R&D.
    - iainmerrick 10y ago
      2 is a good point, but I don't think 1 is correct. I've heard that Cuba has the best doctors, and they often play a crucial role in emergency aid to other countries. For quality of health care overall, the US is just a solid middle ranker when it comes to life expectancy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe... That's only one metric, of course, but it seems like an important one. It seems like the US pays about 3x more (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...) for moderately worse outcomes.
      - tropo 10y ago
        Cuba has people in a different climate, with a different culture, and different inherent susceptibility to disease. If we were to supply Cuba with bacon double cheeseburgers and unlimited soda refills, that life expectancy would not be so hot. Also, give them all desk jobs. Healthcare is better in the USA. We just like to do bad things to ourselves.

Well good news! Now you won't have it at all. Wait until you try medical bankruptcy on for size.

by M_Grey 10y ago

Well good news! Now you won't have it at all. Wait until you try medical bankruptcy on for size.

I will assume that gozur88 has some source on the 85% increase. If that isn't true, ignore this. A prerequisite for an 85% increase is some payment beforehand. If they had no health insurance, they wouldn't have been paying for health insurance, and therefore their rates could not increase.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
bobwaycott 10y ago
My guess is an increase compared to the first-year prices under the ACA. Nobody who talks about the premium increases does so from the perspective that those who are impacted by the increases started at zero. I've seen mine nearly double each enrollment period.

gozur88 10y ago

Sure, because anyone can afford $2500/month. It's practically free.

M_Grey 10y ago
Just wait until you have to pony up $3000 for one MRI.
- slowmotiony 10y ago
  That... sounds like a better deal to me?
  - gozur88 10y ago
    That's what I was thinking. As long as I don't get more than six MRIs a year I come out ahead.
    - gcp 10y ago
      The problem with this reasoning (and by extension, any system where there's a possibility to opt out of healthcare) is that if you have a serious ailment that you can't afford to treat, we have to let you die. But I believe even in the USA you will get (emergency) treatment and the bills racked up, right?
      - gozur88 10y ago
        Yeah, that's true. The problem now is health care plans are so expensive the right thing to do from a green-eyeshades perspective is to pay the fine for not having a plan and go to the ER if you have a problem.
      - kofejnik 10y ago
        The problem with insurance is that literally everyone will have a serious ailment one day. Very few people die instantly, huge majority of deaths are from cancer and cardiovascular
        gcp 10y ago
        This isn't a problem with insurance. You just let the ones without die off. It's a problem because humans are wussies that can't live with their decisions.
        gozur88 10y ago
        Cardiovascular problems aren't necessarily expensive. Sometimes people just drop dead. There's the cost of an ambulance ride and some hubbub in the ER, but that wouldn't make a dent in the amount they paid in. The real problem with insurance is there are people with long-term, expensive medical conditions who will never, in their entire lives, make enough money to pay for their treatment. That just doesn't work under an insurance model.
xupybd 10y ago
Why is healthcare so expensive in the states? People seem to focus on private Heath insurance vs Obama care. But neither should be so expensive. Why are other countries able to provide way cheaper care?
- ozzy6009 10y ago
  1. The USA has the best doctors and hospitals. The marginal benefit to having better doctors and hospitals is completely dwarfed by their higher prices. Would you be willing to pay 2x to have a 5% better chance of no complications on a surgery for a rare condition? Well the USA does exactly that. 2. The USA subsidizes drug development for the rest of the world. All the R&D happens here, and the only reason so much money is spent on this R&D is because the drug companies can charge maximum price to Americans. Other countries negotiate as a block to lower prices. This is great for those countries (cheaper drugs) and the drug companies (marginally expanded markets), but it increases the fraction of money from the US going to that R&D.
  - iainmerrick 10y ago
    2 is a good point, but I don't think 1 is correct. I've heard that Cuba has the best doctors, and they often play a crucial role in emergency aid to other countries. For quality of health care overall, the US is just a solid middle ranker when it comes to life expectancy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe... That's only one metric, of course, but it seems like an important one. It seems like the US pays about 3x more (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...) for moderately worse outcomes.
    - tropo 10y ago
      Cuba has people in a different climate, with a different culture, and different inherent susceptibility to disease. If we were to supply Cuba with bacon double cheeseburgers and unlimited soda refills, that life expectancy would not be so hot. Also, give them all desk jobs. Healthcare is better in the USA. We just like to do bad things to ourselves.