13 ms·
Canada would be an odd choice for many reasons, but is probably attractive for the combination of proximity, and cultural/linguistic similarities. For me, I've
by M_Grey 10y ago
Canada would be an odd choice for many reasons, but is probably attractive for the combination of proximity, and cultural/linguistic similarities. For me, I've been looking at Ireland, Denmark, or the Netherlands for a while, and I'd say they're looking far more attractive today than yesterday.
Besides, money isn't everything. There is something to be said for not having to deal with the insane evangelicals, bitter uneducated whites, and insane levels of violence too. Not to mention the impact this will have on the SCOTUS, and how incredibly screwed up healthcare is.
- mahyarm 10y agoThing is you can move to pretty much any western state or large city and not have to deal with most of that. Portland, Seattle, SF, LA, LV, etc.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- tuna-piano 10y agoIf you didn't read the newspaper, how many of the negative things you mentioned would actually impact your life? Would you even know who was president for the last 4 (or the next 4) based on the impacts to your life? I'd guess not. Just live your life and be happy, vote when you can but don't let what you don't control make you sad.
- enjo 10y agoAfter two or three conservative justices are appointed the court your life will be mega affected. Are you gay? Kiss gay marriage goodbye. Right to privacy ? Gone. Wanna buy or own a sex toy? Those were illegal in many states until a progressive court put an end to it. A conservative court will absolutely reverse that. This is a huge deal.
- inimino 10y agoGay marriage is here to stay because of a massive shift in public opinion on the issue which has been taking place over decades. None of that is going away.
- M_Grey 10y agoAll it will take is a reversion to "let the states decide", which may also be what we see with issues such as abortion. What scares me though, are the decisions like Citizens United, issues with privacy and regulatory oversight, and that kind of thing.
- mattnewton 10y agoI have a hard time believing you after Trump said that he would get someone to repeal Roe V Wade and now he has the house and senate to do it.
- masonic 10y agoHave you read Roe v Wade (or even the Constitution, for that matter) at all? Again, describe the mechanism by which this could happen.
- mattnewton 10y agoDo you really not believe that these people will follow through with their campaign promises when they have the house, senate, and presidency? All it takes is a SCOTUS nominee, a new law defunding planned parenthood and/or banning abortion, and a challenge to the law to get struck down in the Supreme Court, all of which are now in their grasp. I am talking about civil liberties in general. The mechanism for gay marriage would be similar. As a footnote, yes, I have read the decision and I have read my constitution. Furthermore I don't think this is the right place for those kinds of ad-hominem attacks.
- masonic 10y ago
- M_Grey 10y agoThat's absurdly naive, given the impact just one SCOTUS judge can have. I mean, unless you're incredibly wealthy, and don't care about anyone else at all.
- maerF0x0 10y agoEnough with your spamming about SCOTUS. This isnt reddit.
- pshposh 10y agoThis might be a surprise but I don't necessarily vote based on what I get out of it.
- majormajor 10y agoThat depends a LOT on which state you live in. Live somewhere like CA? Hard to see the state government or Supreme Court rolling things back too terribly. Health insurance if you don't have a good job would be a big question mark, would be nice to see the state pick that up. Live in a state where the legislature is inclined to pass laws against your sexuality, religion, etc? That's a much more vulnerable position. IMO a much larger problem than Trump is the structural favoritism in the American political system towards less-populated areas. This has a lot to do with how Obama's last term was largely sabotaged as well, after all.
- makomk 10y agoThat "structural favouritism towards less populated areas" is a very old design feature of American democracy. Without it, everywhere but a small band in each coast would become politically irrelevant, much like it's already ignored by the media.
- M_Grey 10y agoThat sounds awful, until you realize just how many people live in those "small bands".
- jmaygarden 10y ago"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe." Thomas Jefferson
- M_Grey 10y agoYeah, he also owned slaves, and fucked them. It's not as though everything that came out of his mouth was gospel truth.
- majormajor 10y agoNonsense. Clinton's projected by the NY Times to win the popular vote by 1.2% right now. That's hardly a huge mandate for a singular agenda. It's a margin that would still be at massive risk if people continued ignoring those non-coastal populations feeling economically left behind. Instead, despite that 1.2% lead for the Democratic presidential candidate, that party will be the minority party in every branch of government? That's a better, fairer system? Structurally separating everyone into groups drifting further and further apart for everyone is a recipe for a system that can't get much useful stuff done. (And the media ate up the Trump campaign despite it being incredibly unappealing to those small coastal bands. Nobody build an unassailable media monopoly by ignoring something like 48% of the population.)
- mattnewton 10y agoYes. I have two sisters that could lose access to birth control and planned parenthood. One of them dates a black man and already gets racial slurs thrown at them in public. These results are only going to embolden that behavior. America has voted for a mysogynistic sexist at its highest ceremonial office, you don't think that affects what is acceptable discourse? You don't think the SCOTUS is changed for a generation now?
- masonic 10y ago"Yes. I have two sisters that could lose access to birth control and planned parenthood." By what specific mechanism could a Trump presidency cause them to lose access to birth control or abortion?
- mattnewton 10y agoIt's not just a trump presidency, it's a trump presidency rubber stamping a republican house and senate, which will follow through on their stated intention to install judges to repeal Roe V Wade, and to establish a more conservative, evangelical agenda.
- majormajor 10y agoThat's a big oft-overlooked point: Trump seems to have much more moderate views on social issues than the Republican Party (and he didn't win on a very Republican platform), but the problem is that he also will likely not be in a position to contradict or overrule the party on those issues (or terribly inclined to do so in the first place). The trend in the House and Senate and many state governments since 2008 is far more concerning to me than Trump's election.
- mattnewton 10y agoYes, it's the combo that I am worried about.
- DrScump 10y ago
- nkoren 10y agoI grew up and lived most of my life in America, then emigrated to a country with universal healthcare (the UK). When I developed a life-threatening condition which my US insurance would never have covered, the National Health Service saved my life. These things don't matter until they really, really, really do. Having seen the grass on both sides of the fence, I can attest that it really can be meaningfully greener.
- hueving 10y agoWhat life threatening condition did you have that isn't covered by insurance?
- Faaak 10y agoOrgan transplant, edit: most likely
- nkoren 10y agoLong-term back pain that counted as a pre-existing condition for every insurance package I had, on the rare occasions when I could afford to be insured. That eventually degenerated into a couple of prolapsed disc that cut off the nerves to may legs, resulting in constant pain (the kind that leaves you screaming and writhing without a constant morphine drip) and making it impossible to walk, sit up, or go to the bathroom unaided. While not technically a life-threatening condition, my quality of life was low enough that I certainly would have committed suicide had it persisted indefinitely. In the US, as I say, this would not have been covered by my insurance, and would have cost around $50,000 to fix. Completely infeasible for me to find that amount of money. The NHS did an excellent job of fixing it for free.
- nkoren 10y agoLong-term back pain that counted as a pre-existing condition for every insurance package I had, on the rare occasions when I could afford to be insured. That eventually degenerated into a couple of prolapsed disc that cut off the nerves to may legs, resulting in constant pain (the kind that leaves you screaming and writhing without a constant morphine drip) and making it impossible to walk, sit up, or go to the bathroom unaided. While not technically a life-threatening condition, my quality of life was low enough that I certainly would have committed suicide had it persisted indefinitely. In the US, as I say, this would not have been covered by my insurance, and would have cost around $50,000 to fix. Completely infeasible for me to find that amount of money. The NHS did an excellent job of fixing it for free.
- Tepix 10y agoClimate change is real. The most important country electing a climate denier is more than just slighty depressing. It's a threat to zhe planet.
- M_Grey 10y agoIt's true, but at the end of the day you can already see that we're not going to do a damned meaningful thing about it whoever gets elected. The kinds of changes needed are not going to come about in a timely fashion, and when we start to move, it will be far too late (if it isn't already). On that point at least, our fate is sealed.
- KirinDave 10y agoLGBT people, of which there are many here, have every reason to be afraid. Mike Pence has been vocal about his feelings w.r.t. how these people should be "treated". And with the ability to set a Justice and a party dominated House and Senate, it does not look very good for "checks and balances" over the next 4 years. And that of course assumes you're not subject to deportation for whatever reason. If Trump keeps any of his campaign promises we will be seeing many people forced out of the country. No idea what the extent of that will be, and at least some people here are first generation and claim to be anchors.
- rayval 10y agoLooking at Reykjavik, Taipei, Lisbon, Santiago de Chile and Valencia (Spain). In addition to well-known places like Sydney, Copenhagen, Amsterdam.
- M_Grey 10y agoCopenhagen and Amsterdam are incredible places to live, and Amsterdam in particular has the benefit of a population which overwhelmingly speaks English, and is... a little less depressive than the Danish. That said, god I love Denmark.
- dragonzooord 10y agoReykjavik is amazing, but I would get depressed by dealing with 21 hours of darkness in the winter.
- trymas 10y agoBut 21 hours of light in summer. :) Also northern lights should be spectacular.
- M_Grey 10y agoIIRC it's actually the extended light which drives people to suicide there.
- viraptor 10y agoThat does not offset it at all. Unless you've got a ridiculously strong character, or a group of friends that will force you to do something with them, I wouldn't recommend it. Or at least have a backup plan if you start going crazy by November. (Source: own experience)
- kpatrick 10y agoWas in Reykjavik in June one year. It was cold, light and stunk. The cost of food was high.
- anguswithgusto 10y ago
- petre 10y agoJust forget Europe. It's ridden with socialists and laws slowing business to a halt. Add a failing currency to that cocktail and you have a failing economy. Of the whole of Europe, only Switzerland is somewhat attractive.
- spiderfarmer 10y agoGood luck with being an immigrant in Switzerland.
- M_Grey 10y agoYeah, I can't think of many places with steeper hurdles to citizenship, although Japan laps them in that race.
- spiderfarmer 10y agoOnly if you speak German and are able to deal with their not very welcoming nature, you might stand a chance. I know a couple of expats who had everything in their favor (language, skills, local connections) and after 5-10 years still decided to move to Austria and Germany.
- M_Grey 10y agoThat must have been exceedingly difficult, after so much time invested in Switzerland!
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- kalms 10y agohttp://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2015/12/16/the-best-countries-for-business-2015/#50e6e4957364 http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2015/12/16/the-b...
- erikbye 10y agoMore social democrats than socialists, and right wing and conservative opinion is on the rise, have been for a while now.
- farright 10y ago"attractive for the combination of proximity, and cultural/linguistic similarities... There is something to be said for not having to deal with the ... insane levels of violence too." If you just take the above elements of your reasoning, you've just described White flight.
- KirinDave 10y agoI mean, if there was a State in the US where guns were realistically outlawed I'd move there too. Implying that is "white" flight is implying that white people are not major perpetrators of gun violence in America, which simply isn't true. Gun violence in the US is a major problem and our gun ownership and sales policies are at the heart of it. I've considered moving my family away from it long before this horrifying outcome.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- wyoh 10y agoI'd love if you could back up your "white people are major perpetrators of gun violence in the US". FBI crime stats don't seem to agree with you.
- KirinDave 10y agoIn terms of fatality ratios.
- farright 10y agoSee https://www.statista.com/chart/3848/the-us-murder-rate-compared-to-other-countries/ https://www.statista.com/chart/3848/the-us-murder-rate-compa... The murder rate for whites in the US (i.e. the rate at which whites are murdered) is 2.5 per 100,000 much lower than the overall murder rate of 5.2 per 100,000. This is still higher than most of the West, e.g. 70% higher than Canada. But not the "extreme levels" you referred to earlier. And you didn't mention guns before, I'm assuming you don't really only care about violence that comes out of the barrel of a gun, and you're just adding this now to avoid discussing the link between race and crime.
- kalms 10y agoMy wife is an American and we live together here in Denmark. If you move, please reach out. We'll be glad to welcome you!
- shostack 10y agoGenerally speaking how is Denmark for Americans in terms of culture, job opportunities, cost of living, etc.?
- M_Grey 10y agoHigh cost of living, fantastic culture, job opportunities really depend on you.
- klausjensen 10y agoPretty good. Lot's of opportunity for an American. Cost of living and taxes are very high, but then there is of course public healthcare, schools and education paid by taxes. If that's OK with you, then go for it.
- chris_7 10y agoFor Americans coming from NYC or SF, is the cost of living really that much higher?
- tom_mellior 10y agoHere are some numbers you may or may not choose to trust: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+States&city1=New+York%2C+NY&country2=Denmark&city2=Copenhagen https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
- qadevleadgrunt 10y agoI can only speak for myself having lived in Copenhagen/Boston/NYC; cost of living is lower in Copenhagen, but so are salaries, expect a huge cut in pay as well as on your ability to live a comfortable life on a tech salary. In NYC I can do a normal sit down lunch at $40 multiple times a week, without really batting an eye - whereas that would be painful in Denmark - on the plus side you usually have catered lunch which quality, choice and taste wise is not nearly as good, but significantly cheaper and with it being better for team work within the company. For health care you should expect longer lines and significant delays in case you have a non-urgent issue; whereas that in NYC is something you can handle easily by setting up an appointment on Zocdoc so that you can see a specialist the next day - with it being covered by your health insurance. On a NYC tech salary I tend to buy gadgets / items as often as I want, if the cost is below maybe $200, in Denmark that threshold is more like $60. Vacation policies are generally substantially better in Denmark; and workload also being significantly lower. Pros and cons
- dracht 10y ago>bitter uneducated whites Why throw in 'whites' like it's some derogatory adjective? Are bitter uneducated blacks or hispanics preferable? Besides that, people without a college degree are not necessarily stupid or not allowed to have a voice.
- M_Grey 10y agoI'm not throwing anything in, I'm just describing the relevant demographic that's been unable to accept that Obama wasn't a "secret muslim" or "not really american" or some similar horseshit.
- vhab 10y agoIf you're in tech, Sweden is a more attractive opportunity. It's pretty similar to the Netherlands culture wise, but with a much bigger and faster moving tech scene. That said, any in that line up will be a bit of a culture shock coming from the US. Source: I'm Dutch and moved to Sweden
- stevekemp 10y agoAgreed on the culture-shock. None of it will be too bad, probably, but there are enough little differences that it'll take a while to adjust, and not all people can/will manage it. Source: Scottish, moved to Finland. (Biggest pain-points for me: the Finnish language, and the brutal winters.)
- ffjffsfr 10y agoIf I'm programmer/developer looking for job in Sweden where can I find offers? How do you feel about taxes in Sweden? Aren't they very high in nordic countries?
- Broken_Hippo 10y agoI'm in Norway. And yes, taxes are high, but then again, they really aren't. I think when I did the math, the taxes weren't really all that much higher than the taxes + health insurance costs in the states. It feels more like I'm paying a tax instead of outright fees for some things. Some I don't notice as much - such as the 25% VAT, mostly because it is included in the listed price. Cost of living is high here, but Sweden is supposedly cheaper. Enough that there is a bus that goes over the border for Norwegians to shop.
- lennartblanco 10y agoHere is a common job aggregator site for Sweden: https://www.jobbsafari.se/jobb/it/systemutveckling https://www.jobbsafari.se/jobb/it/systemutveckling Most of the ads are in swedish, but google translate does a decent job of translating. Don't be afraid to apply in english, majority of IT companies does not mind hiring english-only speakers. Not sure about the rules on getting a work-visa in Sweden.
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- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- copperred 10y ago"There is something to be said for not having to deal with the insane evangelicals, bitter uneducated whites..." This is exactly the sentiment that has brought us to this point. Either you are tolerant, inclusive or you are not. Try respecting the thoughts and options of others instead of leveling insults. Equality demands that people that differ from you still get a voice.
- rmc 10y agoWait till you find out about Ireland's abortion laws! Trump is incredibly liberal on abortion when compared to Ireland's law!
- jug5 10y agoI've lived in all these countries for a several years each, other than the Netherlands. It's straight up comical you think that you could see them as more attractive than Canada. I wish you the best in being a foreigner for the rest of your life.