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At this time we still cannot be sure who will win but all this to me looks like a big fuck you. It looks like a middle finger and it shows how disconnected medi

At this time we still cannot be sure who will win but all this to me looks like a big fuck you. It looks like a middle finger and it shows how disconnected media moguls, establishment, bureaucracy and "righteous" leftists-democracts are with the people on the ground. It went so far that people who would vote for Trump lied in polls just so that they don't receive strange looks or something worse. That is the fear above mentioned "establishment" instilled into people. And it's not just US... The meltdown of the "media" and shock is just pure funny. Let's forget about all the controversy around Clinton family. I will just leave this[0] here. [0]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1582795/Hillary-Clintons-Bosnia-sniper-story-exposed.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1582795/Hillary-Cl...

ant6n 10y ago
Bernie was leftist. Clinton, not so much. It's strange, as an outside observe I see hate spewed against giant swaths of the population (the 'establishment', the 'leftists', the muslims, the hispanics, the blacks or whatever) from Trump supporters. But those same people keep complaining about the hate they perceive from the left or whatever. It's bizarre. Are people supposed to embrace the racism, sexism and bigotry?
- m_mueller 10y ago
  I think people have more problems with a candidate trying to shut down uncomfortable opinions through the back door than with a candidate who's openly sexist and xenophobic.
  - ant6n 10y ago
    On the face of it, this statement makes no sense. Would you mind to elaborate?
    - flukus 10y ago
      Anyone supporting trump is getting labeled a racist, misogynist, xenophobe. We've seen what happens to to people like Thiel and Eich, people try to get them black balled from the industry because they dare to disagree. Then someone openly flouting this "PC ideology" you've been getting increasingly frustrated by comes along they look quite appealing.
      - ant6n 10y ago
        I've been getting downvoted all night on HN because of this - it seems that people think it's great to support a racist, misogynist xenophobe. But to suggest that basically makes you one as well is totally not okay!
      - throwanem 10y ago
        Don't forget "homophobe", while you're at it. I have to say, it's a real scream to hear that one from guys who cringe when I talk about sucking cock. It's even better than being lectured on race relations by white dudes who've never lived anywhere that had more than three black people out of every thousand. > Then someone openly flouting this "PC ideology" you've been getting increasingly frustrated by comes along they look quite appealing. Oh, my, yes! Especially after we've had such opportunity to observe, firsthand and in detail, what progressivism actually does to all but a PR-vetted, camera-ready token few of those on whose behalf its adherents claim to act - to say nothing of those whom it explicitly discards. We know well what it's like to be trod upon in no more noble cause than advancing someone else's bid for power. We should do - they've been doing it to us for decades. And, more and more, we are realizing that there is nothing in it for us. More and more, we're no longer willing to serve as the compliant little political puppets that people like ant6n and M_Grey demand we be, because obviously they know better than we do what's good for us. "Too stupid and easily manipulated to be helped," I believe it was, and of course we're too ignorant to recognize the difference between being helped, and letting ourselves be co-opted and fucked over time after time after time. "Too stupid and easily manipulated," eh? In fairness I have to give him that second one - we've certainly let progressives lead us by the nose against our own best interests often enough over the last few decades. But that's changing, and doing so faster than I'd have imagined possible only a few years -- only a few hours! -- ago. If they're really too blind to appreciate the arrogance and the sheer unmitigated gall of simultaneously holding us in such contempt and demanding we lick their palms and show our bellies and do as we are told, that's their lookout, not ours. And if they're really too bound up in their damnable ideology and the wreckage of their quest for power to recognize how gravely they've gone wrong, then to hell with them.
    - m_mueller 10y ago
      It seems like Hillary has done all kinds of shady deals just to manipulate opinions. Trump on the other hand is just being Trump - he just says whatever the hell stupid thing is in his head at the moment. People perceive him as honest, even though what he says is highly contradictive - but at least his speeches and ad money is all he seems to be using, rather than doing blatant media manipulation. The whole time I thought - if I were American, I would have had to vote Hillary because Trump seems dangerous, but after reading the following I'm actually not sure anymore. It makes me understand today's result somewhat. The Clinton campaign more and more seems like an entire season of House of Cards. http://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-trump-to-help-clinton/ http://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-t... http://thefreethoughtproject.com/facebook-caught-manipulating-trending/ http://thefreethoughtproject.com/facebook-caught-manipulatin... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-19/hillary-clinton-linked-mysterious-front-associated-julian-assange-pedophile-smear http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-19/hillary-clinton-lin... http://www.inquisitr.com/3495608/julian-assange-makes-claims-that-hillary-clinton-threatened-bernie-sanders-to-drop-out-of-presidential-race/ http://www.inquisitr.com/3495608/julian-assange-makes-claims...
- threesixandnine 10y ago
  Nice try at straw man. A lot of things can be misinterpreted if you already have your mind in the specific drawer. You remember when Trump said that Putin is strong leader and afterwards that if he is the president US won't be weak anymore? Well, he actually meant that Obama is weak and not that Putin is strong. But most of the media and people interpreted that as a thumbs up for Putin. Actually it was thumbs down - as in - it won't be so easy with me.
  - ant6n 10y ago
    My 'drawer' is that the US has a deeply dysfunctional system, and it's in even deeper denial about itself. The lack of education is also a major concern, as is the whole 'fuck you' mentality of all the disenfranchised folks; and the even bigger 'fuck you' mentality of the people in money and power. The only thing that could possibly help it is a pluralist democracy, but I guess that would be too boring, and just wouldn't advance the joyful hate of the binary system.
lake99 10y ago
> The meltdown of the "media" and shock is just pure funny. Oh good. It's not just me, there are others who want Trump to win just for the lulz. I don't care for his presidency, but Clinton belongs behind bars right now. I hope Trump wins and then does something to land him behind bars too. That would be my preferred outcome. The media has to change too, but I don't think a Trump presidency would be capable of bringing that about.
petre 10y ago
Well, you can't blame them. They really wanted Hillary to win, while conveniently trying to manipulate the public at the same time.
throwanem 10y ago
> It went so far that people who would vote for Trump lied in polls just so that they don't receive strange looks or something worse. Hi there. I swear to God, it's like coming out all over again. That this should be true of any political stance is utterly absurd, but, hey, here we are.
- ant6n 10y ago
  True. It's like being a Nazi in Germany -- why shouldn't they allowed to vote, chin up high, for the destruction of the lower races. It is, after all, just a political stance.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    ...he said, to a gay man.
  - Inconel 10y ago
    Your statement here, in addition to some of your other comments, is increasing going down a path of vilifying Trump voters as nothing more than racists, xenophobes, and now literal Nazis. You seem to leave no room for the possibility that while there are undoubtedly racists among the Trump supporters, and that Trump has made comments I would consider undignified, and I certainly didn't vote for him, there may be legitimate reasons why so many people across the country felt that Trump was the best opportunity to have their voices heard. Or at least that he represented an opportunity to reject the status quo. Perhaps those of us who have been fortunate enough, either through pure luck or a combination of circumstance and hard work, to have escaped the trap of poverty and self destruction, would be better served if we empathized with the plight than many of the poor, poorly educated, rural working class are subject to rather than simply dismiss them as rednecks, hicks, white trash, and now apparently Nazis, or any number of derisive names I hear many of my "progressive" acquaintances use.
    - ant6n 10y ago
      I was actually trying to make the point that not any political ideology is defensible just because it's a political opinion you can vote for. So I'm gonna go ahead and call your point a strawman.

ant6n 10y ago

Bernie was leftist. Clinton, not so much. It's strange, as an outside observe I see hate spewed against giant swaths of the population (the 'establishment', the 'leftists', the muslims, the hispanics, the blacks or whatever) from Trump supporters. But those same people keep complaining about the hate they perceive from the left or whatever. It's bizarre. Are people supposed to embrace the racism, sexism and bigotry?

m_mueller 10y ago
I think people have more problems with a candidate trying to shut down uncomfortable opinions through the back door than with a candidate who's openly sexist and xenophobic.
- ant6n 10y ago
  On the face of it, this statement makes no sense. Would you mind to elaborate?
  - flukus 10y ago
    Anyone supporting trump is getting labeled a racist, misogynist, xenophobe. We've seen what happens to to people like Thiel and Eich, people try to get them black balled from the industry because they dare to disagree. Then someone openly flouting this "PC ideology" you've been getting increasingly frustrated by comes along they look quite appealing.
    - ant6n 10y ago
      I've been getting downvoted all night on HN because of this - it seems that people think it's great to support a racist, misogynist xenophobe. But to suggest that basically makes you one as well is totally not okay!
    - throwanem 10y ago
      Don't forget "homophobe", while you're at it. I have to say, it's a real scream to hear that one from guys who cringe when I talk about sucking cock. It's even better than being lectured on race relations by white dudes who've never lived anywhere that had more than three black people out of every thousand. > Then someone openly flouting this "PC ideology" you've been getting increasingly frustrated by comes along they look quite appealing. Oh, my, yes! Especially after we've had such opportunity to observe, firsthand and in detail, what progressivism actually does to all but a PR-vetted, camera-ready token few of those on whose behalf its adherents claim to act - to say nothing of those whom it explicitly discards. We know well what it's like to be trod upon in no more noble cause than advancing someone else's bid for power. We should do - they've been doing it to us for decades. And, more and more, we are realizing that there is nothing in it for us. More and more, we're no longer willing to serve as the compliant little political puppets that people like ant6n and M_Grey demand we be, because obviously they know better than we do what's good for us. "Too stupid and easily manipulated to be helped," I believe it was, and of course we're too ignorant to recognize the difference between being helped, and letting ourselves be co-opted and fucked over time after time after time. "Too stupid and easily manipulated," eh? In fairness I have to give him that second one - we've certainly let progressives lead us by the nose against our own best interests often enough over the last few decades. But that's changing, and doing so faster than I'd have imagined possible only a few years -- only a few hours! -- ago. If they're really too blind to appreciate the arrogance and the sheer unmitigated gall of simultaneously holding us in such contempt and demanding we lick their palms and show our bellies and do as we are told, that's their lookout, not ours. And if they're really too bound up in their damnable ideology and the wreckage of their quest for power to recognize how gravely they've gone wrong, then to hell with them.
  - m_mueller 10y ago
    It seems like Hillary has done all kinds of shady deals just to manipulate opinions. Trump on the other hand is just being Trump - he just says whatever the hell stupid thing is in his head at the moment. People perceive him as honest, even though what he says is highly contradictive - but at least his speeches and ad money is all he seems to be using, rather than doing blatant media manipulation. The whole time I thought - if I were American, I would have had to vote Hillary because Trump seems dangerous, but after reading the following I'm actually not sure anymore. It makes me understand today's result somewhat. The Clinton campaign more and more seems like an entire season of House of Cards. http://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-trump-to-help-clinton/ http://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-t... http://thefreethoughtproject.com/facebook-caught-manipulating-trending/ http://thefreethoughtproject.com/facebook-caught-manipulatin... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-19/hillary-clinton-linked-mysterious-front-associated-julian-assange-pedophile-smear http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-19/hillary-clinton-lin... http://www.inquisitr.com/3495608/julian-assange-makes-claims-that-hillary-clinton-threatened-bernie-sanders-to-drop-out-of-presidential-race/ http://www.inquisitr.com/3495608/julian-assange-makes-claims...
threesixandnine 10y ago
Nice try at straw man. A lot of things can be misinterpreted if you already have your mind in the specific drawer. You remember when Trump said that Putin is strong leader and afterwards that if he is the president US won't be weak anymore? Well, he actually meant that Obama is weak and not that Putin is strong. But most of the media and people interpreted that as a thumbs up for Putin. Actually it was thumbs down - as in - it won't be so easy with me.
- ant6n 10y ago
  My 'drawer' is that the US has a deeply dysfunctional system, and it's in even deeper denial about itself. The lack of education is also a major concern, as is the whole 'fuck you' mentality of all the disenfranchised folks; and the even bigger 'fuck you' mentality of the people in money and power. The only thing that could possibly help it is a pluralist democracy, but I guess that would be too boring, and just wouldn't advance the joyful hate of the binary system.

lake99 10y ago

> The meltdown of the "media" and shock is just pure funny. Oh good. It's not just me, there are others who want Trump to win just for the lulz. I don't care for his presidency, but Clinton belongs behind bars right now. I hope Trump wins and then does something to land him behind bars too. That would be my preferred outcome. The media has to change too, but I don't think a Trump presidency would be capable of bringing that about.

petre 10y ago

Well, you can't blame them. They really wanted Hillary to win, while conveniently trying to manipulate the public at the same time.

throwanem 10y ago

> It went so far that people who would vote for Trump lied in polls just so that they don't receive strange looks or something worse. Hi there. I swear to God, it's like coming out all over again. That this should be true of any political stance is utterly absurd, but, hey, here we are.

ant6n 10y ago
True. It's like being a Nazi in Germany -- why shouldn't they allowed to vote, chin up high, for the destruction of the lower races. It is, after all, just a political stance.
- throwanem 10y ago
  ...he said, to a gay man.
- Inconel 10y ago
  Your statement here, in addition to some of your other comments, is increasing going down a path of vilifying Trump voters as nothing more than racists, xenophobes, and now literal Nazis. You seem to leave no room for the possibility that while there are undoubtedly racists among the Trump supporters, and that Trump has made comments I would consider undignified, and I certainly didn't vote for him, there may be legitimate reasons why so many people across the country felt that Trump was the best opportunity to have their voices heard. Or at least that he represented an opportunity to reject the status quo. Perhaps those of us who have been fortunate enough, either through pure luck or a combination of circumstance and hard work, to have escaped the trap of poverty and self destruction, would be better served if we empathized with the plight than many of the poor, poorly educated, rural working class are subject to rather than simply dismiss them as rednecks, hicks, white trash, and now apparently Nazis, or any number of derisive names I hear many of my "progressive" acquaintances use.
  - ant6n 10y ago
    I was actually trying to make the point that not any political ideology is defensible just because it's a political opinion you can vote for. So I'm gonna go ahead and call your point a strawman.