4 ms·

Is this a legal strategy? It seems illegal.

by howItsDone123 10y ago

bobwaycott 10y ago
On what grounds are you thinking there's anything illegal happening here?
- martin_bech 10y ago
  You are selling your vote. Where im from (denmark) thats highly illegal. Its also illegal to document what you voted for, to insure you cant sell your vote.
  - bobwaycott 10y ago
    There is no vote-selling happening here. No money or anything of value is changing hands. People are promising, and expecting the other to make good on the promise, to exchange votes. This is an exercising of one's right to free speech and engage in the voting process, and was declared protected by the First Amendment in Porter v. Bowen. Edit: Porter v. Bowen was a federal Appeals Court ruling, so it isn't a SCOTUS-level, nationwide decision. But it certainly establishes precedent, and could potentially be used by those who wish to challenge any state laws that expressly prohibit vote-swapping as a restriction of their First Amendment rights.
- jack9 10y ago
  http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/net_election/2000/11/is_voteswapping_legal.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/net_election... Technically, tampering. Yet-to-be-adjudicated in the same way as someone doing something illegal doesn't always get prosecuted because stare decisis (or political backlash) is so crazy-overused that you rather avoid going forward than lose on technnicalities or by a small margin.
  - bobwaycott 10y ago
    Swapping your vote is not technically tampering. And the practice has been adjudicated. See Porter v. Bowen. Of course, since that was only an Appeals Court ruling and not SCOTUS, the legality is strictly dependent upon your state and whether it has laws on the books expressly prohibiting swapping. But, those laws could be challenged if one desired to put Porter v. Bowen to the test. PS: The article you linked dates from 2000. Porter v. Bowen was in 2007. You really ought to check the dates on things you read. A lot has changed in 16 years. Look at Citizens United.
drakonandor 10y ago
Definitely illegal. However, it'll get a pass like everything else illegal done this election.
- bobwaycott 10y ago
  This is definitively legal. The Ninth Circuit ruled so in 2007. You're making a strong claim, and you cannot back this claim up at all. Vote-swapping is not a new thing. There's even case law that supports it as a clear exercise of one's First Amendment rights. See Porter v. Bowen. You might not like it, but that has no bearing on its legality.
  - drakonandor 10y ago
    That site is operating outside in regions outside the Ninth Circuit's jurisdiction, including in places where it is definitively illegal. Apparently I'm not the only one making strong claims today.
    - bobwaycott 10y ago
      So, you're just doubling down on your claims without providing any kind of counter evidence? Your initial statement was vote-swapping was definitely illegal. Now, you're walking back and revising to say it is definitively illegal in certain regions. What jurisdictions outside the Ninth Circuit have expressly forbidden the practice of vote-swapping? I've performed a cursory search of US laws against vote-pairing and vote-swapping. I have found nothing. Please, share your knowledge of what parts of the US have enacted legislation that makes non-pecuniary pairing/swapping illegal. Based on what evidence I can find, I'm making no strong claims. Please point me in the right direction to revise my understanding, if it is indeed in error.
Vaskivo 10y ago
According to Popehat, it's legal. https://popehat.com/2016/11/05/randazza-vote-swapping-trump-trading/ https://popehat.com/2016/11/05/randazza-vote-swapping-trump-...

Is this a legal strategy? It seems illegal.

bobwaycott 10y ago

On what grounds are you thinking there's anything illegal happening here?

martin_bech 10y ago
You are selling your vote. Where im from (denmark) thats highly illegal. Its also illegal to document what you voted for, to insure you cant sell your vote.
- bobwaycott 10y ago
  There is no vote-selling happening here. No money or anything of value is changing hands. People are promising, and expecting the other to make good on the promise, to exchange votes. This is an exercising of one's right to free speech and engage in the voting process, and was declared protected by the First Amendment in Porter v. Bowen. Edit: Porter v. Bowen was a federal Appeals Court ruling, so it isn't a SCOTUS-level, nationwide decision. But it certainly establishes precedent, and could potentially be used by those who wish to challenge any state laws that expressly prohibit vote-swapping as a restriction of their First Amendment rights.
jack9 10y ago
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/net_election/2000/11/is_voteswapping_legal.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/net_election... Technically, tampering. Yet-to-be-adjudicated in the same way as someone doing something illegal doesn't always get prosecuted because stare decisis (or political backlash) is so crazy-overused that you rather avoid going forward than lose on technnicalities or by a small margin.
- bobwaycott 10y ago
  Swapping your vote is not technically tampering. And the practice has been adjudicated. See Porter v. Bowen. Of course, since that was only an Appeals Court ruling and not SCOTUS, the legality is strictly dependent upon your state and whether it has laws on the books expressly prohibiting swapping. But, those laws could be challenged if one desired to put Porter v. Bowen to the test. PS: The article you linked dates from 2000. Porter v. Bowen was in 2007. You really ought to check the dates on things you read. A lot has changed in 16 years. Look at Citizens United.

drakonandor 10y ago

Definitely illegal. However, it'll get a pass like everything else illegal done this election.

bobwaycott 10y ago
This is definitively legal. The Ninth Circuit ruled so in 2007. You're making a strong claim, and you cannot back this claim up at all. Vote-swapping is not a new thing. There's even case law that supports it as a clear exercise of one's First Amendment rights. See Porter v. Bowen. You might not like it, but that has no bearing on its legality.
- drakonandor 10y ago
  That site is operating outside in regions outside the Ninth Circuit's jurisdiction, including in places where it is definitively illegal. Apparently I'm not the only one making strong claims today.
  - bobwaycott 10y ago
    So, you're just doubling down on your claims without providing any kind of counter evidence? Your initial statement was vote-swapping was definitely illegal. Now, you're walking back and revising to say it is definitively illegal in certain regions. What jurisdictions outside the Ninth Circuit have expressly forbidden the practice of vote-swapping? I've performed a cursory search of US laws against vote-pairing and vote-swapping. I have found nothing. Please, share your knowledge of what parts of the US have enacted legislation that makes non-pecuniary pairing/swapping illegal. Based on what evidence I can find, I'm making no strong claims. Please point me in the right direction to revise my understanding, if it is indeed in error.

Vaskivo 10y ago

According to Popehat, it's legal. https://popehat.com/2016/11/05/randazza-vote-swapping-trump-trading/ https://popehat.com/2016/11/05/randazza-vote-swapping-trump-...