5 ms·

Microsoft embraces open source because they found out that there are other methods to monetize and lock in customers. As a bonus people seem to like you when yo

by blub 10y ago

Microsoft embraces open source because they found out that there are other methods to monetize and lock in customers. As a bonus people seem to like you when you give them stuff for free, even with the catch of privacy invasion. In other words, they stopped copying Apple and switched their sights on Google. The stuff that matters stays closed source. Infrastructure, tooling are published because they bring massive amounts of goodwill and developer mindshare while hindering potential competitors that now have to battle with a free offering. Frankly I preferred the old Microsoft which wanted your money, not the new one that (also!) wants your data.

AnonymousPlanet 10y ago
And there is nothing at all stopping them from closing everything up again once they're back on top (which might be sooner than anyone thinks).
- prplhaz4 10y ago
  Are there any good examples of this strategy? I can't think of anyone successfully moving a leading open source product back to closed source...I think normally it's the fork of the open source version that lives on...
  - randomguy23 10y ago
    historically it's what MS has done: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. No reason to think that they are doing something different this time. Trust, once broken, takes quite a while to build back.
  - parennoob 10y ago
    Solaris? The open source nature of it seemed to disappear overnight after Oracle bought Sun, but looks like Oracle's not doing too badly with it. I know there's the Open Source illumos (IIRC) but haven't heard of anyone using it in production.
    - dozzie 10y ago
      This guy uses a derivative of Illumos in production: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/ https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/
      - siebenmann 10y ago
        If people are interested, the specifics of our current OmniOS environment are here: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/solaris/ZFSFileserverSetupII https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/solaris/ZFSFileserv... We have been broadly happy with it and it has been quite stable after some initial teething problems.
        dozzie 10y ago
        Oh. And I was wondering what nick do you have here :)
    - cthalupa 10y ago
      >I know there's the Open Source illumos (IIRC) but haven't heard of anyone using it in production. Joyent? OmniTI? https://www.joyent.com/smartos https://www.joyent.com/smartos https://omnios.omniti.com/ https://omnios.omniti.com/ SmartOS and OmniOS are both used in modern day production workloads.
  - AnonymousPlanet 10y ago
    Off the top of my head: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MaxDB#Licensing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MaxDB#Licensing In case of Microsoft, you don't even have to be very imaginative: how much of the stack currently in use by .Net developers on Windows is completely open? How important and hard to replace are the parts that aren't? And how much of a difference would it make in the end to have had Core open source in the past, when the new and closed version is the only one that works with those billions of Windows10 tablets and those popular Azure services that everyone needs for their startup?
    - Kipters 10y ago
      You can run the open source .NET Core on Azure, also the new programming model for Windows (UWP) uses .NET Core, not the desktop .NET
nixos 10y ago
They're not copying Google. They're taking the worst of both worlds. Windows isn't free. It just happens to come with the cost of your PC, but the PC manufacturer pays for it (and passes the cost to you). They just noticed that no one upgrades Windows (and why should they? When was the last time you were excited about a windows release? XP? 95? 3.1? Maybe 7 if you're coming from Vista?)
- baldfat 10y ago
  I have been using Linux for 13 years. I fail to see the worst? I personally was VERY excited for Windows 7 and it proved to be a very solid edition. VERY VERY excited for Ubuntu bash in Windows 10 in the preview edition. > They're not copying Google. They're taking the worst of both worlds. Google's model is advertising Apple's is Hardware Microsoft is selling services more. I find it really awesome that Microsoft has really turned into a company I have a positive view of and glad that Steve Balmer is gone.
  - nixos 10y ago
    > Microsoft is selling services more. Maybe, but what I'm saying is that: Apple costs, is closed-source but (somewhat) cares about privacy. Google is free, (somewhat) open-source but actively doesn't care about privacy. Windows costs, closed source and actively doesn't care about privacy. In other words, with Google you're not the customer, you're the product. With Microsoft you're the product and you have to pay for the privilege to be a product.
    - bpye 10y ago
      Microsoft is a lot more than just Windows.
    - baldfat 10y ago
      I have a strong negative bias vs Apple and everything they make. One thing is Apple is not a closed source company. Though it is a mixed bag they have made some good contributions to the Open Sources world. Though their Walled Garden is YUGE https://developer.apple.com/opensource/ https://developer.apple.com/opensource/ * Bonjour * Webkit * Swift
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

by blub 10y ago

AnonymousPlanet 10y ago

And there is nothing at all stopping them from closing everything up again once they're back on top (which might be sooner than anyone thinks).

prplhaz4 10y ago
Are there any good examples of this strategy? I can't think of anyone successfully moving a leading open source product back to closed source...I think normally it's the fork of the open source version that lives on...
- randomguy23 10y ago
  historically it's what MS has done: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. No reason to think that they are doing something different this time. Trust, once broken, takes quite a while to build back.
- parennoob 10y ago
  Solaris? The open source nature of it seemed to disappear overnight after Oracle bought Sun, but looks like Oracle's not doing too badly with it. I know there's the Open Source illumos (IIRC) but haven't heard of anyone using it in production.
  - dozzie 10y ago
    This guy uses a derivative of Illumos in production: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/ https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/
    - siebenmann 10y ago
      If people are interested, the specifics of our current OmniOS environment are here: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/solaris/ZFSFileserverSetupII https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/solaris/ZFSFileserv... We have been broadly happy with it and it has been quite stable after some initial teething problems.
      - dozzie 10y ago
        Oh. And I was wondering what nick do you have here :)
  - cthalupa 10y ago
    >I know there's the Open Source illumos (IIRC) but haven't heard of anyone using it in production. Joyent? OmniTI? https://www.joyent.com/smartos https://www.joyent.com/smartos https://omnios.omniti.com/ https://omnios.omniti.com/ SmartOS and OmniOS are both used in modern day production workloads.
- AnonymousPlanet 10y ago
  Off the top of my head: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MaxDB#Licensing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MaxDB#Licensing In case of Microsoft, you don't even have to be very imaginative: how much of the stack currently in use by .Net developers on Windows is completely open? How important and hard to replace are the parts that aren't? And how much of a difference would it make in the end to have had Core open source in the past, when the new and closed version is the only one that works with those billions of Windows10 tablets and those popular Azure services that everyone needs for their startup?
  - Kipters 10y ago
    You can run the open source .NET Core on Azure, also the new programming model for Windows (UWP) uses .NET Core, not the desktop .NET

nixos 10y ago

They're not copying Google. They're taking the worst of both worlds. Windows isn't free. It just happens to come with the cost of your PC, but the PC manufacturer pays for it (and passes the cost to you). They just noticed that no one upgrades Windows (and why should they? When was the last time you were excited about a windows release? XP? 95? 3.1? Maybe 7 if you're coming from Vista?)

baldfat 10y ago
I have been using Linux for 13 years. I fail to see the worst? I personally was VERY excited for Windows 7 and it proved to be a very solid edition. VERY VERY excited for Ubuntu bash in Windows 10 in the preview edition. > They're not copying Google. They're taking the worst of both worlds. Google's model is advertising Apple's is Hardware Microsoft is selling services more. I find it really awesome that Microsoft has really turned into a company I have a positive view of and glad that Steve Balmer is gone.
- nixos 10y ago
  > Microsoft is selling services more. Maybe, but what I'm saying is that: Apple costs, is closed-source but (somewhat) cares about privacy. Google is free, (somewhat) open-source but actively doesn't care about privacy. Windows costs, closed source and actively doesn't care about privacy. In other words, with Google you're not the customer, you're the product. With Microsoft you're the product and you have to pay for the privilege to be a product.
  - bpye 10y ago
    Microsoft is a lot more than just Windows.
  - baldfat 10y ago
    I have a strong negative bias vs Apple and everything they make. One thing is Apple is not a closed source company. Though it is a mixed bag they have made some good contributions to the Open Sources world. Though their Walled Garden is YUGE https://developer.apple.com/opensource/ https://developer.apple.com/opensource/ * Bonjour * Webkit * Swift

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]