6 ms·

Well, I'm not sure where you're from but I'm thankful my ancestors didn't have your attitude when confronted to dictatorship. Your contempt for those people wh

by seszett 10y ago

Well, I'm not sure where you're from but I'm thankful my ancestors didn't have your attitude when confronted to dictatorship. Your contempt for those people who are fighting for their freedom in their own country is astonishing.

vinceguidry 10y ago
What, exactly, do you think Hong Kong could possibly do to preserve their freedoms? China has been moving its citizens over to Hong Kong for a decade now, citizens who answer to the Communist Party and vote Communist in all matters. How many more years do you think they'll have to do that before the people who grew up in the old system are completely outvoted in every matter? I'll all for standing up to the man, but let's get real, this battle is unwinnable. Even if all of Hong Kong decided to really start fighting to preserve their way of life, China would just declare martial law and that will be that.
- rawnlq 10y ago
  Mainlanders actually have to go through a lot of hoops to move to Hong Kong so I am pretty sure you have no clue what you're talking about. They don't even speak the same dialect. I am pretty sure you had no idea about the mass protests[1] that are ongoing in the past few years either. How can you look at this crowd of several hundred thousand protesters and claim that they are powerless? Another Tiananmen square probably can't happen again in the digital age. Or maybe it can, but only due to our defeatist indifference. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests [2]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-30390820 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-30390820
  - vinceguidry 10y ago
    Okay, ask yourself exactly what these protests can hope to accomplish. Protests happen all the time, everywhere. Nobody hears about them because the state controls the media. Nothing happens because the Communist Party has plenty of people there taking notes on who is there and they keep careful tabs on them. If it starts to look like they're getting uppity, they'll get a visit from their local Party leadership and gently encouraged to stop their foolishness. Escalate as appropriate. Defeatism is precisely appropriate here. You have to ask yourself how badly you want change. Enough to put your family's livelihood at risk? Nothing here is worth fighting a war over, and that's what it would take to meaningfully change the way politics is conducted in China. Everybody's best bet is to just fall in line and hope the Party doesn't totally bungle this five year plan.
MrZongle2 10y ago
In vinceguidry's defense, most countries don't have the kind of heads-up about looming dictatorships that Hong Kong had: the Sino-British Joint Declaration in December 1984 made it clear that handover would take place in 1997. If you were concerned about being governed by Communists, you had 13 years to get the hell out. And if you weren't concerned about being governed by Communists...well, you clearly hadn't been paying attention to history. Tiananmen Square (1989) alone should have been a wake-up call to China's future subjects. This doesn't make what's happening now less appalling, but HK residents had ample opportunity to avoid the inevitable. Compare that to other dictatorships that sprung up relatively overnight; in Turkey, for instance, Erdogan has been president for little more than 2 years.
- 11thEarlOfMar 10y ago
  >13 years to get the hell out This is exactly why my father-in-law sent all 5 of his kids to the US for college. All 5 now have US passports and can leave Hong Kong if and when it becomes worse than they can stand. So far, 2 of them have made the move.
- rodgerd 10y ago
  > you had 13 years to get the hell out. Good luck with immigration. Britain certainly didn't want to let many of its former subject leave.
- brian_cloutier 10y ago
  Erdogan founded Akparty, the ruling party, 15 years ago (In 2001). He was prime minister for 11 years before becoming president. What has happened to Turkey happened quickly but took much longer than 2 years. To add, I don't know much about Hong Kong, but it's pretty difficult to leave Turkey if you're a citizen, not many countries want to give you a Visa meaning only the educated, upper class, is able to leave. If you're proposing a solution you should propose one which doesn't leave behind all the poor.
- jahewson 10y ago
  And where exactly were 7 million people supposed to move?

by seszett 10y ago

vinceguidry 10y ago

What, exactly, do you think Hong Kong could possibly do to preserve their freedoms? China has been moving its citizens over to Hong Kong for a decade now, citizens who answer to the Communist Party and vote Communist in all matters. How many more years do you think they'll have to do that before the people who grew up in the old system are completely outvoted in every matter? I'll all for standing up to the man, but let's get real, this battle is unwinnable. Even if all of Hong Kong decided to really start fighting to preserve their way of life, China would just declare martial law and that will be that.

rawnlq 10y ago
Mainlanders actually have to go through a lot of hoops to move to Hong Kong so I am pretty sure you have no clue what you're talking about. They don't even speak the same dialect. I am pretty sure you had no idea about the mass protests[1] that are ongoing in the past few years either. How can you look at this crowd of several hundred thousand protesters and claim that they are powerless? Another Tiananmen square probably can't happen again in the digital age. Or maybe it can, but only due to our defeatist indifference. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests [2]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-30390820 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-30390820
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  Okay, ask yourself exactly what these protests can hope to accomplish. Protests happen all the time, everywhere. Nobody hears about them because the state controls the media. Nothing happens because the Communist Party has plenty of people there taking notes on who is there and they keep careful tabs on them. If it starts to look like they're getting uppity, they'll get a visit from their local Party leadership and gently encouraged to stop their foolishness. Escalate as appropriate. Defeatism is precisely appropriate here. You have to ask yourself how badly you want change. Enough to put your family's livelihood at risk? Nothing here is worth fighting a war over, and that's what it would take to meaningfully change the way politics is conducted in China. Everybody's best bet is to just fall in line and hope the Party doesn't totally bungle this five year plan.

MrZongle2 10y ago

In vinceguidry's defense, most countries don't have the kind of heads-up about looming dictatorships that Hong Kong had: the Sino-British Joint Declaration in December 1984 made it clear that handover would take place in 1997. If you were concerned about being governed by Communists, you had 13 years to get the hell out. And if you weren't concerned about being governed by Communists...well, you clearly hadn't been paying attention to history. Tiananmen Square (1989) alone should have been a wake-up call to China's future subjects. This doesn't make what's happening now less appalling, but HK residents had ample opportunity to avoid the inevitable. Compare that to other dictatorships that sprung up relatively overnight; in Turkey, for instance, Erdogan has been president for little more than 2 years.

11thEarlOfMar 10y ago
>13 years to get the hell out This is exactly why my father-in-law sent all 5 of his kids to the US for college. All 5 now have US passports and can leave Hong Kong if and when it becomes worse than they can stand. So far, 2 of them have made the move.
rodgerd 10y ago
> you had 13 years to get the hell out. Good luck with immigration. Britain certainly didn't want to let many of its former subject leave.
brian_cloutier 10y ago
Erdogan founded Akparty, the ruling party, 15 years ago (In 2001). He was prime minister for 11 years before becoming president. What has happened to Turkey happened quickly but took much longer than 2 years. To add, I don't know much about Hong Kong, but it's pretty difficult to leave Turkey if you're a citizen, not many countries want to give you a Visa meaning only the educated, upper class, is able to leave. If you're proposing a solution you should propose one which doesn't leave behind all the poor.
jahewson 10y ago
And where exactly were 7 million people supposed to move?