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> It's a sad world we live in that I speed read your post and wasn't sure if you meant the UAE or USA.......... I hate this type of rhetoric comparing the USA

by ythl 10y ago

> It's a sad world we live in that I speed read your post and wasn't sure if you meant the UAE or USA.......... I hate this type of rhetoric comparing the USA to a police state. The USA does not detain, "disappear," or torture political dissidents or opponents. The USA is not a police state. It's not even close to a police state.

chinathrow 10y ago
Not a police state per se - but detaining political protestors at large isn't something to be fond of. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/occupy-wall-street-arrests_n_3326640.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/occupy-wall-street-...
secfirstmd 10y ago
"Homan Square revealed: how Chicago police 'disappeared' 7,000 people" https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/19/homan-square-chicago-police-disappeared-thousands https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/19/homan-square... "The Counted" https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/series/counted-us-police-killings https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/series/counted-us-police... "Operation Condor" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor "Hell in “Dark Prison”: New forms of torture at CIA black site revealed" https://www.salon.com/2016/10/04/hell-in-dark-prison-new-forms-of-torture-at-cia-black-site-revealed/ https://www.salon.com/2016/10/04/hell-in-dark-prison-new-for... "Black Site" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site
- ythl 10y ago
  Tell me, are you afraid of criticizing President Obama on Twitter? Are you afraid jack-booted secret police might kick down your door in the middle of the night and throw you in prison for 5 years if you complain about the government on Facebook? Those are the types of problems people in UAE have to deal with.
  - secfirstmd 10y ago
    I know, I work with and train activists and journalists in UAE and elsewhere all time.
  - tajen 10y ago
    It's inefficient to bust everyone. But the SWAT teams are certainly hyperactive in USA, look: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gamers+being+swatted+live https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gamers+being+sw...
    - ythl 10y ago
      What does this have to do with anything? Are the gamers political dissidents?
      - tajen 10y ago
        Gamers are the only ones we have pictures of. We don't know what happens to the rest of the population, especially politically-involved people, and especially people who investigate on Hillary Clinton.
        linkregister 10y ago
        I didn't participate in the downvoting of your post. > We don't know what happens to the rest of the population, especially politically-involved people, and especially people who investigate on Hillary Clinton. We do have a pretty good account of entire news and political organizations being extremely vocal about their opposition to one or more dominant political parties. Anyone can purchase a subscription to many magazines that take an overtly anti-government stance. I find it strange that you point out Hillary Clinton as an "off limits" public figure; the amount of articles critical of her is in the tens of thousands. The initial email server scandal was broken by Gawker, and further investigated by reporters at the New York Times. Nearly every hour of Fox News I watched this year had something critical to say about Hillary Clinton. 60% of my Facebook feed is anti-Hillary posts. She is perhaps the safest public figure to criticize without expectation of negative consequences.
geon 10y ago
> The USA does not detain, "disappear," or torture political dissidents or opponents. Then what was that whole Guantanamo thing about? > The USA is not a police state. No one claimed that.
tajen 10y ago
Which state would reckon being a police state? To determine whether it is, we need to look at facts. 95% prisoners are there on plea bargain, which means they have never been proven guilty (They might just not be able to afford analysis); 1146 people killed by police in 2015; 1% of the population in prison and up to 6% depending on race; people get raided by SWAT for playing poker, 2 gigantic databases of everyone's online actions with a Real Name Policy (Google+ and Facebook), torture is legal for opponents of the country, a guy who investigated Hillary Clinton was suicided by a gunshot in a park... ...and a guy who exposed illegal action ("under any normal person's understanding" of the Constitution) is currently the #1 top wanted guy on the planet and is seeking refuge in... Russia (oh, the irony). Every single one of those facts could be turned into a movie, but we're now so used to them that we all despair. I, as a foreigner in Europe, don't go to conferences in USA because of the TSA.
- lgieron 10y ago
  > 95% prisoners are there on plea bargain It could be because the people who know they are guilty take the bargain and save themselves some years, while the innocent go to court and prove their innocence.
  - tajen 10y ago
    This doesn't prove they are guilty. That's the problem with plea bargain: Scientific analysis costs a lot, even to prove obvious things, and most don't have the money to purchase that. Hence: 95% people in jail aren't proven guilty.

by ythl 10y ago

chinathrow 10y ago

Not a police state per se - but detaining political protestors at large isn't something to be fond of. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/occupy-wall-street-arrests_n_3326640.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/occupy-wall-street-...

secfirstmd 10y ago

"Homan Square revealed: how Chicago police 'disappeared' 7,000 people" https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/19/homan-square-chicago-police-disappeared-thousands https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/19/homan-square... "The Counted" https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/series/counted-us-police-killings https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/series/counted-us-police... "Operation Condor" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor "Hell in “Dark Prison”: New forms of torture at CIA black site revealed" https://www.salon.com/2016/10/04/hell-in-dark-prison-new-forms-of-torture-at-cia-black-site-revealed/ https://www.salon.com/2016/10/04/hell-in-dark-prison-new-for... "Black Site" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_site

ythl 10y ago
Tell me, are you afraid of criticizing President Obama on Twitter? Are you afraid jack-booted secret police might kick down your door in the middle of the night and throw you in prison for 5 years if you complain about the government on Facebook? Those are the types of problems people in UAE have to deal with.
- secfirstmd 10y ago
  I know, I work with and train activists and journalists in UAE and elsewhere all time.
- tajen 10y ago
  It's inefficient to bust everyone. But the SWAT teams are certainly hyperactive in USA, look: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gamers+being+swatted+live https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gamers+being+sw...
  - ythl 10y ago
    What does this have to do with anything? Are the gamers political dissidents?
    - tajen 10y ago
      Gamers are the only ones we have pictures of. We don't know what happens to the rest of the population, especially politically-involved people, and especially people who investigate on Hillary Clinton.
      - linkregister 10y ago
        I didn't participate in the downvoting of your post. > We don't know what happens to the rest of the population, especially politically-involved people, and especially people who investigate on Hillary Clinton. We do have a pretty good account of entire news and political organizations being extremely vocal about their opposition to one or more dominant political parties. Anyone can purchase a subscription to many magazines that take an overtly anti-government stance. I find it strange that you point out Hillary Clinton as an "off limits" public figure; the amount of articles critical of her is in the tens of thousands. The initial email server scandal was broken by Gawker, and further investigated by reporters at the New York Times. Nearly every hour of Fox News I watched this year had something critical to say about Hillary Clinton. 60% of my Facebook feed is anti-Hillary posts. She is perhaps the safest public figure to criticize without expectation of negative consequences.

geon 10y ago

> The USA does not detain, "disappear," or torture political dissidents or opponents. Then what was that whole Guantanamo thing about? > The USA is not a police state. No one claimed that.

tajen 10y ago

Which state would reckon being a police state? To determine whether it is, we need to look at facts. 95% prisoners are there on plea bargain, which means they have never been proven guilty (They might just not be able to afford analysis); 1146 people killed by police in 2015; 1% of the population in prison and up to 6% depending on race; people get raided by SWAT for playing poker, 2 gigantic databases of everyone's online actions with a Real Name Policy (Google+ and Facebook), torture is legal for opponents of the country, a guy who investigated Hillary Clinton was suicided by a gunshot in a park... ...and a guy who exposed illegal action ("under any normal person's understanding" of the Constitution) is currently the #1 top wanted guy on the planet and is seeking refuge in... Russia (oh, the irony). Every single one of those facts could be turned into a movie, but we're now so used to them that we all despair. I, as a foreigner in Europe, don't go to conferences in USA because of the TSA.

lgieron 10y ago
> 95% prisoners are there on plea bargain It could be because the people who know they are guilty take the bargain and save themselves some years, while the innocent go to court and prove their innocence.
- tajen 10y ago
  This doesn't prove they are guilty. That's the problem with plea bargain: Scientific analysis costs a lot, even to prove obvious things, and most don't have the money to purchase that. Hence: 95% people in jail aren't proven guilty.