4 ms·

very well said

by AKifer 10y ago

very well said

sho_hn 10y ago
The "real men" part is a bit distasteful by modern decency standards, but that's the quotation. I read it more as saying something about businesses that make physical tangibles under their own steam.
- blahi 10y ago
  Do you mean it's not politically correct?
  - sho_hn 10y ago
    I think it speaks to a vision of masculinity I can't really relate to, and think many around me would agree. (Man, this is the first time I've seen downvotes on HN - interesting that this is such a sore thing.)
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - sten 10y ago
      I can appreciate the sentiment. Though in this context I'd consider it to almost be a satire. ie. Real men don't think about the kinds of things that other people who say "real men __" because they're busy building things.
    - marktangotango 10y ago
      Didn't down vote, but the quote is clearly that, a quote, discussing it in identity terms is jaring, out of context, off topic, and not charitable to the op, imo.
      - sho_hn 10y ago
        Fair. I guess I felt uncomfortable enough that I wanted to disassociate myself from it, but I suppose I should trust the HN audience there.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - caminante 10y ago
      > Man, this is the first time I've seen downvotes on HN In the context, your "Man" is ironic.
- icegreentea 10y ago
  You can interpret that statement in any number of ways. That quote originated no later than 1994. The semi-conductor industry then was certainly dominated by men. In that sense, the use of the male gender is surely just a byproduct of its environment - if nearly everyone you work with and compete against is a bunch of dudes, you'd surely end up using masculine pronouns all the time. Another interesting thing is the entanglement of male personal identity with the corporation. Because men don't actually own fabs - corporations own fabs. Economic/legal entities designed to exploit human labour and creativity own fabs. The very people muttering these statements about real men are doing so while embedding themselves into a matrix of control. And another way to interpret this - even if a positive vision of masculinity merely includes sufficient self dependence and a capability to provide for others - ie to be free, then this statement is blatantly true. The statement is that people who are truly able to be free are those who own the methods of production - something which the vast majority of men (or people really) in our world do not.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    The origin (AFAIK) is actually about ten years older than that. In 1982, there was a short satirical humor book published called "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche" [1] that generated what we would now call a "meme" in that vein. I think a number of folks here are taking the fab comment in a far more serious vein than I'm sure it was intended. (A 1994 audience would mostly be quite familiar with the reference.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Men_Don%27t_Eat_Quiche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Men_Don%27t_Eat_Quiche
- ldev 10y ago
  need to consult Code of Conduct on that one

very well said

by AKifer 10y ago

very well said

The "real men" part is a bit distasteful by modern decency standards, but that's the quotation. I read it more as saying something about businesses that make physical tangibles under their own steam.

blahi 10y ago
Do you mean it's not politically correct?
- sho_hn 10y ago
  I think it speaks to a vision of masculinity I can't really relate to, and think many around me would agree. (Man, this is the first time I've seen downvotes on HN - interesting that this is such a sore thing.)
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - sten 10y ago
    I can appreciate the sentiment. Though in this context I'd consider it to almost be a satire. ie. Real men don't think about the kinds of things that other people who say "real men __" because they're busy building things.
  - marktangotango 10y ago
    Didn't down vote, but the quote is clearly that, a quote, discussing it in identity terms is jaring, out of context, off topic, and not charitable to the op, imo.
    - sho_hn 10y ago
      Fair. I guess I felt uncomfortable enough that I wanted to disassociate myself from it, but I suppose I should trust the HN audience there.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - caminante 10y ago
    > Man, this is the first time I've seen downvotes on HN In the context, your "Man" is ironic.
icegreentea 10y ago
You can interpret that statement in any number of ways. That quote originated no later than 1994. The semi-conductor industry then was certainly dominated by men. In that sense, the use of the male gender is surely just a byproduct of its environment - if nearly everyone you work with and compete against is a bunch of dudes, you'd surely end up using masculine pronouns all the time. Another interesting thing is the entanglement of male personal identity with the corporation. Because men don't actually own fabs - corporations own fabs. Economic/legal entities designed to exploit human labour and creativity own fabs. The very people muttering these statements about real men are doing so while embedding themselves into a matrix of control. And another way to interpret this - even if a positive vision of masculinity merely includes sufficient self dependence and a capability to provide for others - ie to be free, then this statement is blatantly true. The statement is that people who are truly able to be free are those who own the methods of production - something which the vast majority of men (or people really) in our world do not.
- ghaff 10y ago
  The origin (AFAIK) is actually about ten years older than that. In 1982, there was a short satirical humor book published called "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche" [1] that generated what we would now call a "meme" in that vein. I think a number of folks here are taking the fab comment in a far more serious vein than I'm sure it was intended. (A 1994 audience would mostly be quite familiar with the reference.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Men_Don%27t_Eat_Quiche https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Men_Don%27t_Eat_Quiche
ldev 10y ago
need to consult Code of Conduct on that one