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This is something that my wife and I thought a lot about before we moved out here, and we still work hard to keep costs very lean and mean. So, I'll write a bo
by iamelgringo 19y ago
This is something that my wife and I thought a lot about before we moved out here, and we still work hard to keep costs very lean and mean. So, I'll write a book for ya.
I've lived in Minneapolis, Chicago, LA, Providence, Fresno and now the Bay Area. And, it's the most expensive city we've lived in. There is usually a gentleman's competition ongoing as to what area is more expensive to live in: Bay Area or New York City. I think that Manhattan generally wins as to a specific region, but if compared to New York City as a whole, I think that Silicon Valley probably wins the competition.
It's expensive.
But, you can make it work for you. It just takes work, and a willingness to do stuff differently than you're used to.
If you're moving here, consider Craigslist to be your Bible for rental listings. Every one advertises on Craigslist, even the large corporate apartment complexes. Search around there for a few months. Then use the neighborhood designations that Craigslist uses to research the specific neighborhoods that you're interested in.
As to what your burn rate will be in the Valley, it all depends on how you want to live. If you're going to share an apartment with roommates and eat ramen noodle/frankfurter surprise 3 meals a day that will cut costs dramatically. If you want to get your own studio or one bedroom and eat out at Chez Snooteee 7 days a week, that raises prices a lot.
Also, where you live matters a great deal in how much you pay for rent. San Francisco and Palo Alto are the two highest rent areas in the Valley. Prices go down the further out you live from there. East Bay prices tend to be quite a bit lower, but commutes can be quite nasty because of having to cross the Bay on one of the bridges. We found San Jose to be a great compromise. It's a nice city, getting around is pretty easy, has a decent little downtown for events/entertainment and rents are pretty reasonable considering the area. And, I commute opposite traffic because I work nights.
Food prices in the grocery stores are about 30% higher than we've paid in Boston, although there's ways around that. Safeway.com actually lets you order groceries online, and their prices are exactly the same in store as they are online. (We've researched it). But if you want to get a feel for what your grocery bill will be, save your receipt from your next trip to the grocery store, and create an account and a shopping list at: http://shop.safeway.com/register/default.asp?brandid=1 http://shop.safeway.com/register/default.asp?brandid=1 You can then compare the two and figure out what you'll be spending on groceries at the store.
Gas prices are usually 20-30% higher than the rest of the nation, with gas in San Fran usually topping the national price charts. Gas is about $3.50 right now for us in San Jose.
Restaurants are anywhere from %30-50 more expensive in the Bay area. After you've done your neighborhood research on Craigslist, look at Yelp.com for restaurants in that area, and look at their menu's. You'll see what I mean. My wife and I routinely drop $50-80 for dinner with a glass of wine at a mid priced restaurant like the Olive Garden. Back East, that'd be $30-50 a dinner.
Electric bills are some of the highest in the nation. We rent a 4 bed 2 bath house in San Jose, and our electric heating bill for Nov-Fev usually runs between $300-400 a month. If you can rent a place with utilities included, you're in luck. You only need air conditioning for 2-3 weeks out of the year in the South Bay. You probably don't need it in San Fran.
Water and trash is $50 a month.
Rents go down about %10-20 during winter and around Christmas, and up an additional %10-20 during the summer. So, if you move out here, you can get the cheapest rents in January or early December. It's a terrible time to move, but it really makes a difference when your paying $1800 for a 3 bed 2 bath house as opposed to $2400.
Cable and Internet are comparable to %20 higher than elsewhere.
If you can, get a place with utilities included. It's worth the extra money in rent. Utilities out here are expensive.
Public transportation stinks compared to Boston, New York or Chicago. People out here are thrilled that they can occasionally ride it to an event down town. It's rare that people use it to commute every day. However, people in San Fran can get by without a car. You can't in the rest of the area. A new perk some of the larger companies (Google, VMware) are offering is shuttle service to and from work. If you can land a job with a perk like that it'll save you $100-200 a month in gas depending on your car.
We rent that 4 bed 2 bath house in San Jose for about $2100 a month. It was more expensive to rent a house, but it gives us a lot more room for stuff, which ends up making in more economical for us in the long run. Here's what we did: We've turned our garage in to a mini warehouse lined with shop shelves, and we shop in bulk at CostCo (www.CostCo.com). I mean ++shop_in_bulk++. We buy 4-5 months of staples, paper goods, meat, office supplies at CostCo. We also have 2 freezers to store meat, prepared meals, etc... And, we're able to rent out a room to family. Yeah, it's a little weird, but it works for us.
There is great shopping in the area. Ikea is for all your furniture and low end household stuff. You can get great deals at Fry's electronics if you watch their sales papers. And, for everything else, shop at the Gilroy Outlets. They are actual outlets that sell overstock and seconds. They really are some of the best outlets in Northern California, and you can get some amazing deals on great products. Because of that, we actually pay less for household goods and clothes than we did living anywhere else.
All that being said, moving here is the hardest part financially. After you get here, things even out a bit, and salaries are high enough that they generally compensate for the high cost of living.
Good luck.
- ssanders82 19y agoThanks for the long write-up, I'm thinking of moving out west as well (from South Carolina of all places), and San Jose is on my radar. I'm a 25yo single male used to living very cheaply, so those numbers are helpful. I'd be living out there doing contract work for people in NC, which is probably backwards from the optimal setup...
- iamelgringo 19y agoOnce you get out here, you can network pretty easily. I've been hanging out on the rails business group: http://groups.google.com/group/rails-business?hl=en&lnk=gschg http://groups.google.com/group/rails-business?hl=en&lnk=... and I've gotten an email or two a month looking for contract developers in the area. Or you can go to some of the Rails meetups or Bay Piggies (Python users group) in the area and at least you should be able to meet some people and possibly pick up some contract work out here. You just have to make an effort to get out and meet people. Jobs don't seem to be a big problem right now.
- davidw 19y agoAny of you guys in SV get a sense that that area is headed south along with the rest of the economy... or not? I recall moving back to the bay area in 2002, and it was pretty bad. I found work, but it was kind of difficult to connect to potential employers as there were a lot of .com people still milling about, looking for something to do.
- iamelgringo 19y agoI know that Yahoo just fired 1000 people in the past few weeks, but I hear that many of them got a 3 months severance. That should be enough time for them to start a business or find another gig. Friend was a laser engineer, just got laid off after 25 years, but had 5 offers on the table in two weeks. GOOG's stock price has taken a tumble, but they still seem to be hiring: http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/topic.py?loc_id=1116&dep_id=1173 http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/topic.py?loc_id=1116&... Even the "big names" out here that are VC funded web startups, that would be at risk of taking a one way to the dead pool in the event of a "bubble pop", don't really have that many employees. Digg has 50 employees, Facebook had 300 at my last count but is still hiring like crazy: http://www.facebook.com/jobs/ http://www.facebook.com/jobs/ It seems like there are a lot of companies that are coming and going, but there aren't the huge layoffs that hit the place so hard 6-7 years ago, because web startups have kept it pretty lean and mean. For the most part, the engineers still seem to be running the valley, not the biz dev guys. Startups have been built without a lot of money, and are used to running on a shoe string. If the economy tightens up, I don't think that it will the startup guys that hard. Some of the big hardware companies might shed some people if capital expenditures take a nose dive across the country, so that means that Intel, HP and Sun might shed some employees. But that's about it.