7 ms·

You should always approach the negotiations with an upper hand - an offer from somewhere else. If it doesn't go well, just move.

rhodysurf 10y ago
Yup I've used this recently and it went really well. However, my boss is really good to his employees and understands negotiations are just business. A lot of situations are different and there are a lot of employers who do not like competing with other offers. Also have to make sure you don't over value your worth to your current company.
dxxvi 10y ago
You'll be given the raise, but you'll be let go very soon.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  Not necessarily true. I have had several occasions where I told my boss that I had this offer and what does he recommend to do. I always got a raise and wasn't laid off.
  - SteveNuts 10y ago
    How long did you stick around after you presented the other offer?
    - maxxxxx 10y ago
      Quite a while. There were no negative consequences.
      - ryandrake 10y ago
        Wow, I can't imagine a place where playing the "I got an offer somewhere else" card wouldn't start a countdown clock on your career there.
        maxxxxx 10y ago
        Do you just think it's that way or do you have experience? I used to imagine management would take this personally but they generally don't. I wouldn't recommend doing this every few months though.
        ryandrake 10y ago
        Admittedly no, I've never known anyone to do it but people tend to be pretty cagey about talking about salary and job hunting and that kind of stuff, so who knows? I also have never seen anyone poop on their manager's desk but can speculate about what would happen thereafter :-)
        maxxxxx 10y ago
        They may take pooping on their desk personally so I would advice against that! Try asking for more money first. If that doesn't work then you can poop on their desk.
        bcbrown 10y ago
        Have you ever seen that happen? I find it hard to believe that it would start a countdown clock.
      - sokoloff 10y ago
        My experience as well, as both employee and as manager.
- imaginenore 10y ago
  Being let go (not fired) is awesome though. You get severance pay on top of your new higher salary. So you go and find an even higher-paying gig.
  - rhizome 10y ago
    What distinction are you making? If by "let go" you mean laid off, the rules as I understand them require the business to actually eliminate the position.
    - walshemj 10y ago
      In America they use laid off as a synonym for redundancy and I have seen people made redundant and comeback as a contractor on 3x pay
- Touche 10y ago
  That would be a really shady thing for an employer to do, if you've seen this happen please call out the company by name.
- branchless 10y ago
  This makes little sense. Why didn't they say no in the first place? A successful business does not harbour a grudge like this. The cost of hiring is high, even if they replace you at your former wage the rest of the cost/disruption is expensive.
- draw_down 10y ago
  Yes, I think this strategy has some real downsides. If you're willing to go this far just quit; one who accepts a counter-offer will most likely be seen as suspect thereafter until they leave.
JoshDoody 10y ago
This can be an effective tactic (meaning it could get you a raise), but it's not my preferred method. I prefer to focus on the situation itself without bringing in that sort of leverage because of the impact it can have on the way you're perceived at your company, by your manager, by your teammates, etc. This strategy can work, but it's a little riskier than focusing on the value and working with your manager to align your salary with that value.
- branchless 10y ago
  I wonder, do the managers see it that way? Engineers are doing their job and often buy into the worth of the company, the importance of their work etc. And even if they don't they think most of their peers do. So when an engineer plays this card he tends to assume others will see it as ruthless. But do management really think this? Do they really drink the kool aide and think less of you? Or do they just see this as part of the game, and only the underlings think like this.
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    Ex-manager (now VP) here. I've never thought poorly of someone raising the topic of their value to the company or their current salary. Doesn't mean I've always agreed with their assessment, but there's no hard feelings on my side. By the time you go out and get another bona-fide offer that you're considering taking, I and our company have already lost the game if that's the first I hear about it. I'd much rather hear about it before you've invested that amount of time and energy into it and don't hold it against you regardless of the outcome. If we're talking about it every 3 weeks, it's a problem, of course. I've also encouraged some very good employees to go interview and see what's out there. This is typically when a potential new role is fundamentally different from what I can offer. (Higher role at a smaller company perhaps, or a job in their home town, or a brand new startup with some past coworkers.) I've had all four outcomes (employee stays-no change, employee gets offer-we counter-they stay, employee gets offer-we counter-they leave, employee gets offer-we don't counter-they leave). I also don't buy into the "never accept a counter-offer; they'll just be sharpening the knife to fire you later" line of thinking. If I didn't want you here, I wouldn't counter. If you think of this whole process as a ruthless move in a game, I think you're thinking about wrong. You bring value to the table; the company brings value to the table; we freely exchange that value, making both of us better off.

rhodysurf 10y ago

Yup I've used this recently and it went really well. However, my boss is really good to his employees and understands negotiations are just business. A lot of situations are different and there are a lot of employers who do not like competing with other offers. Also have to make sure you don't over value your worth to your current company.

dxxvi 10y ago

You'll be given the raise, but you'll be let go very soon.

maxxxxx 10y ago
Not necessarily true. I have had several occasions where I told my boss that I had this offer and what does he recommend to do. I always got a raise and wasn't laid off.
- SteveNuts 10y ago
  How long did you stick around after you presented the other offer?
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    Quite a while. There were no negative consequences.
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      Wow, I can't imagine a place where playing the "I got an offer somewhere else" card wouldn't start a countdown clock on your career there.
      - maxxxxx 10y ago
        Do you just think it's that way or do you have experience? I used to imagine management would take this personally but they generally don't. I wouldn't recommend doing this every few months though.
        ryandrake 10y ago
        Admittedly no, I've never known anyone to do it but people tend to be pretty cagey about talking about salary and job hunting and that kind of stuff, so who knows? I also have never seen anyone poop on their manager's desk but can speculate about what would happen thereafter :-)
        maxxxxx 10y ago
        They may take pooping on their desk personally so I would advice against that! Try asking for more money first. If that doesn't work then you can poop on their desk.
      - bcbrown 10y ago
        Have you ever seen that happen? I find it hard to believe that it would start a countdown clock.
    - sokoloff 10y ago
      My experience as well, as both employee and as manager.
imaginenore 10y ago
Being let go (not fired) is awesome though. You get severance pay on top of your new higher salary. So you go and find an even higher-paying gig.
- rhizome 10y ago
  What distinction are you making? If by "let go" you mean laid off, the rules as I understand them require the business to actually eliminate the position.
  - walshemj 10y ago
    In America they use laid off as a synonym for redundancy and I have seen people made redundant and comeback as a contractor on 3x pay
Touche 10y ago
That would be a really shady thing for an employer to do, if you've seen this happen please call out the company by name.
branchless 10y ago
This makes little sense. Why didn't they say no in the first place? A successful business does not harbour a grudge like this. The cost of hiring is high, even if they replace you at your former wage the rest of the cost/disruption is expensive.
draw_down 10y ago
Yes, I think this strategy has some real downsides. If you're willing to go this far just quit; one who accepts a counter-offer will most likely be seen as suspect thereafter until they leave.

JoshDoody 10y ago

This can be an effective tactic (meaning it could get you a raise), but it's not my preferred method. I prefer to focus on the situation itself without bringing in that sort of leverage because of the impact it can have on the way you're perceived at your company, by your manager, by your teammates, etc. This strategy can work, but it's a little riskier than focusing on the value and working with your manager to align your salary with that value.

branchless 10y ago
I wonder, do the managers see it that way? Engineers are doing their job and often buy into the worth of the company, the importance of their work etc. And even if they don't they think most of their peers do. So when an engineer plays this card he tends to assume others will see it as ruthless. But do management really think this? Do they really drink the kool aide and think less of you? Or do they just see this as part of the game, and only the underlings think like this.
- sokoloff 10y ago
  Ex-manager (now VP) here. I've never thought poorly of someone raising the topic of their value to the company or their current salary. Doesn't mean I've always agreed with their assessment, but there's no hard feelings on my side. By the time you go out and get another bona-fide offer that you're considering taking, I and our company have already lost the game if that's the first I hear about it. I'd much rather hear about it before you've invested that amount of time and energy into it and don't hold it against you regardless of the outcome. If we're talking about it every 3 weeks, it's a problem, of course. I've also encouraged some very good employees to go interview and see what's out there. This is typically when a potential new role is fundamentally different from what I can offer. (Higher role at a smaller company perhaps, or a job in their home town, or a brand new startup with some past coworkers.) I've had all four outcomes (employee stays-no change, employee gets offer-we counter-they stay, employee gets offer-we counter-they leave, employee gets offer-we don't counter-they leave). I also don't buy into the "never accept a counter-offer; they'll just be sharpening the knife to fire you later" line of thinking. If I didn't want you here, I wouldn't counter. If you think of this whole process as a ruthless move in a game, I think you're thinking about wrong. You bring value to the table; the company brings value to the table; we freely exchange that value, making both of us better off.