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It's that that big of a deal actually. You can still disable SIP, you can still override kernel extension signing (and signing on pretty much anything else), an

It's that that big of a deal actually. You can still disable SIP, you can still override kernel extension signing (and signing on pretty much anything else), and you can sill install any GPLv3 software you want. It's just the default base install that has changed, and everyone knows there is no one-size fits all. While there are plenty of commercial reasons to not go beyond GPLv3 from the vendor point of view, it doesn't really change anything for "us". Even if we had a stable bash from 2015, we'd still want the 2016 version and install it anyway...

tobltobs 10y ago
Just out of curiosity (never used a Mac), how to you install all those versions you need? Via a package manager or from source?
- bearand 10y ago
  There are lots of options, but Homebrew (http://brew.sh/ http://brew.sh/) is the most popular package manager for macOS.
- pauloday 10y ago
  Personally I use a package manager called Homebrew. It's pretty good, I'd recommend it.
- panglott 10y ago
  I used the nix package manager for a while, but it's arcane, so I went to MacPorts. Homebrew is obviously the main one, though. It's always been better to install more up-to-date software, since the system default unix software has been ancient for a long time. It seems like default system Python was python 2.3 or 2.4 forever, although they've upgraded to python 2.7.
- rhinoceraptor 10y ago
  I've been using NetBSD pkgsrc: https://pkgsrc.joyent.com/install-on-osx/ https://pkgsrc.joyent.com/install-on-osx/
- protomyth 10y ago
  macports works fine https://www.macports.org https://www.macports.org
belorn 10y ago
Wonder what is holding them back from going full lockdown on all apple devices. Is it because PR and trying to keep a good image with the developer crowd, is it because they can't demand that every third-party application goes through them or they loose business customers, or some other thing I just don't see?
- threeseed 10y ago
  You make it sound like locking down the platform is a goal. It isn't. It's a side effect of hardening the platform from a security perspective. And Apple has quite a few developers as well. I don't think they would want to make the platform impossible to use.
  - belorn 10y ago
    The goal of locking down a platform has been the same on practically every consumer product ever produced that is locked down: To be able to take a cut whenever a third-party product is sold. Been true from everything between a gaming consoles, phones, e-book readers, espresso machines and printers. Enabling developers and internal business software is nice for PR and market share, while 30% cut on all sold third-party products is a strong incentive to lock down. My guess would be that its the market share towards business that prevents the lockdown, not security or developers, mainly because I suspect it is easier to run the numbers on that and determine what bring most revenue.
    - BoorishBears 10y ago
      That's needlessly painting it as black and white. It's also not nearly as commonly used as a way to profit off third parties as it is to keep out third parties. The 10NES being a great example, or K-Cups, or proprietary e-book formats or phones locked to carriers.
  - WayneBro 10y ago
    Locking you into Apple hardware and software is most certainly their stated goal. You can read it directly from the horse's mouth: `In 2010, a year before his death, Steve Jobs outlined Apple’s strategy in an email to the company’s 100 most senior employees. He heralded the “Post PC era,” vowed “Holy War with Google,” promised to “further lock customers into our ecosystem,”...` - http://qz.com/196005/the-steve-jobs-email-that-outlined-apples-strategy-a-year-before-his-death/ http://qz.com/196005/the-steve-jobs-email-that-outlined-appl... Discussed recently here on HN - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12864727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12864727 Security wasn't mentioned once in that email.
paws 10y ago
You can still disable SIP Even if only an academic exercise, it would be cool to actually strip out SIP and mandatory kernel extension signing. At the time of writing, Apple still hasn't open sourced Sierra's XNU[1]. [1] 10.11.6 source: https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-3248.60.10/ https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-3248.60.10/

tobltobs 10y ago

Just out of curiosity (never used a Mac), how to you install all those versions you need? Via a package manager or from source?

bearand 10y ago
There are lots of options, but Homebrew (http://brew.sh/ http://brew.sh/) is the most popular package manager for macOS.
pauloday 10y ago
Personally I use a package manager called Homebrew. It's pretty good, I'd recommend it.
panglott 10y ago
I used the nix package manager for a while, but it's arcane, so I went to MacPorts. Homebrew is obviously the main one, though. It's always been better to install more up-to-date software, since the system default unix software has been ancient for a long time. It seems like default system Python was python 2.3 or 2.4 forever, although they've upgraded to python 2.7.
rhinoceraptor 10y ago
I've been using NetBSD pkgsrc: https://pkgsrc.joyent.com/install-on-osx/ https://pkgsrc.joyent.com/install-on-osx/
protomyth 10y ago
macports works fine https://www.macports.org https://www.macports.org

belorn 10y ago

Wonder what is holding them back from going full lockdown on all apple devices. Is it because PR and trying to keep a good image with the developer crowd, is it because they can't demand that every third-party application goes through them or they loose business customers, or some other thing I just don't see?

threeseed 10y ago
You make it sound like locking down the platform is a goal. It isn't. It's a side effect of hardening the platform from a security perspective. And Apple has quite a few developers as well. I don't think they would want to make the platform impossible to use.
- belorn 10y ago
  The goal of locking down a platform has been the same on practically every consumer product ever produced that is locked down: To be able to take a cut whenever a third-party product is sold. Been true from everything between a gaming consoles, phones, e-book readers, espresso machines and printers. Enabling developers and internal business software is nice for PR and market share, while 30% cut on all sold third-party products is a strong incentive to lock down. My guess would be that its the market share towards business that prevents the lockdown, not security or developers, mainly because I suspect it is easier to run the numbers on that and determine what bring most revenue.
  - BoorishBears 10y ago
    That's needlessly painting it as black and white. It's also not nearly as commonly used as a way to profit off third parties as it is to keep out third parties. The 10NES being a great example, or K-Cups, or proprietary e-book formats or phones locked to carriers.
- WayneBro 10y ago
  Locking you into Apple hardware and software is most certainly their stated goal. You can read it directly from the horse's mouth: `In 2010, a year before his death, Steve Jobs outlined Apple’s strategy in an email to the company’s 100 most senior employees. He heralded the “Post PC era,” vowed “Holy War with Google,” promised to “further lock customers into our ecosystem,”...` - http://qz.com/196005/the-steve-jobs-email-that-outlined-apples-strategy-a-year-before-his-death/ http://qz.com/196005/the-steve-jobs-email-that-outlined-appl... Discussed recently here on HN - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12864727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12864727 Security wasn't mentioned once in that email.

paws 10y ago

You can still disable SIP Even if only an academic exercise, it would be cool to actually strip out SIP and mandatory kernel extension signing. At the time of writing, Apple still hasn't open sourced Sierra's XNU[1]. [1] 10.11.6 source: https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-3248.60.10/ https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-3248.60.10/