5 ms·

They've been playing this game from the start. I remember the original announcement blog post talking about how he figured out the formula through trial and err

They've been playing this game from the start. I remember the original announcement blog post talking about how he figured out the formula through trial and error. We can eat small amounts of poison and never notice that it's damaged our bodies, for example. Who knows what the long term effects are.

XorNot 10y ago
You can also eat small amounts of poison and become immune. Everything will be damage in large quantities. And some common things probably do long term damage (e.g. any amount of charring on meat) but we never question them.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- dkersten 10y ago
  That's not the point I was tying to make. My point was that he created the formula through trial and error (I distinctly remember he said he'd put whatever amount he read online was correct and then if he felt sick he'd adjust the amount down; but "getting sick" is a rather extreme indicator). That is, at least prior to investment money (which I hope was at least partially spent on testing the stuff for safety), his safety claims were based off "I didn't get sick in the short term" without any real data on the medium to long term effects. I mentioned small amounts of poison only as an anecdote that his trial and error testing could potentially have been harming him without him knowing it. That is, it's simply an anecdote to demonstrate that the "safety tests" he had done up until that blog post were themselves anecdotal at best. I haven't been following soylent since and assume (and hope) that since he took on funding that he then followed up with proper scientific procedures. But people ate his stuff based on that initial blog post, so...
  - Blaaguuu 10y ago
    It's not a subject that I have done a ton of reading on, but from the many random articles that I have read over the years, it really seems like the bulk of nutritional science is still pretty much trial and error... Hence the new studies that seem to come out ever other month saying that eggs are good/bad for you... or coffee... or soy... or algae... or multi-vitamins... or gluten... or berries... For something that affects us so deeply, it seems like we still know remarkably little about how food affects our bodies/minds. Any research that the Soylent folks do or read is helpful, but I wouldn't expect them to do a 5 year study and be able to suddenly say without a doubt that they have a the perfect formula.
- ghurtado 10y ago
  > You can also eat small amounts of poison and become immune. What kinds of poison can you build an immunity to by eating small amounts of it?
  - schneitj 10y ago
    I heard snake venom is like that. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3410065/The-man-immune-snake-venom-Amateur-scientist-inflicts-bites-bold-dangerous-attempt-develop-vaccines.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3410065/The-man-immu...
  - binoct 10y ago
    Iocane powder Actually there are a few, though it's definitely not the rule - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridatism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridatism
    - ghurtado 10y ago
      Interesting link. "It is important to note that mithridatism is not effective against all types of poison, and, depending on the toxin, the practice can lead to the lethal accumulation of a poison in the body." "There are only a few, if any, practical uses of mithridatism. " I think that will be my takeaway. In case you didn't know, it looks like Iocane Powder is an imaginary substance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_toxins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_toxins
  - jacalata 10y ago
    Apparently it works for poison ivy: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2757/what-poisons-can-i-safely-take-to-build-immunity-to-toxic-substances http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2757/what-poisons-c...
- whyenot 10y ago
  That may work with (fictional) iocane powder in The Princess Bride, but almost all real poisons don't work that way. For example, you aren't going to become immune to the amatoxins in death cap mushrooms by having a nibble everyone once in a while.
  - chillacy 10y ago
    It happens enough to have a name though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis
napperjabber 10y ago
It's suggested that out digestive system is strongly linked to our intelligence. One could argue that it could either increase or reduce our capacity to cope. Possibly even change our species or provide use with a new system of organs that would make use depent on a centralized food source. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1834002/#!po=1.38889 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1834002/#!po=1.... Truly fascinating stuff!

XorNot 10y ago

You can also eat small amounts of poison and become immune. Everything will be damage in large quantities. And some common things probably do long term damage (e.g. any amount of charring on meat) but we never question them.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
dkersten 10y ago
That's not the point I was tying to make. My point was that he created the formula through trial and error (I distinctly remember he said he'd put whatever amount he read online was correct and then if he felt sick he'd adjust the amount down; but "getting sick" is a rather extreme indicator). That is, at least prior to investment money (which I hope was at least partially spent on testing the stuff for safety), his safety claims were based off "I didn't get sick in the short term" without any real data on the medium to long term effects. I mentioned small amounts of poison only as an anecdote that his trial and error testing could potentially have been harming him without him knowing it. That is, it's simply an anecdote to demonstrate that the "safety tests" he had done up until that blog post were themselves anecdotal at best. I haven't been following soylent since and assume (and hope) that since he took on funding that he then followed up with proper scientific procedures. But people ate his stuff based on that initial blog post, so...
- Blaaguuu 10y ago
  It's not a subject that I have done a ton of reading on, but from the many random articles that I have read over the years, it really seems like the bulk of nutritional science is still pretty much trial and error... Hence the new studies that seem to come out ever other month saying that eggs are good/bad for you... or coffee... or soy... or algae... or multi-vitamins... or gluten... or berries... For something that affects us so deeply, it seems like we still know remarkably little about how food affects our bodies/minds. Any research that the Soylent folks do or read is helpful, but I wouldn't expect them to do a 5 year study and be able to suddenly say without a doubt that they have a the perfect formula.
ghurtado 10y ago
> You can also eat small amounts of poison and become immune. What kinds of poison can you build an immunity to by eating small amounts of it?
- schneitj 10y ago
  I heard snake venom is like that. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3410065/The-man-immune-snake-venom-Amateur-scientist-inflicts-bites-bold-dangerous-attempt-develop-vaccines.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3410065/The-man-immu...
- binoct 10y ago
  Iocane powder Actually there are a few, though it's definitely not the rule - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridatism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridatism
  - ghurtado 10y ago
    Interesting link. "It is important to note that mithridatism is not effective against all types of poison, and, depending on the toxin, the practice can lead to the lethal accumulation of a poison in the body." "There are only a few, if any, practical uses of mithridatism. " I think that will be my takeaway. In case you didn't know, it looks like Iocane Powder is an imaginary substance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_toxins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_toxins
- jacalata 10y ago
  Apparently it works for poison ivy: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2757/what-poisons-can-i-safely-take-to-build-immunity-to-toxic-substances http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2757/what-poisons-c...
whyenot 10y ago
That may work with (fictional) iocane powder in The Princess Bride, but almost all real poisons don't work that way. For example, you aren't going to become immune to the amatoxins in death cap mushrooms by having a nibble everyone once in a while.
- chillacy 10y ago
  It happens enough to have a name though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis

napperjabber 10y ago

It's suggested that out digestive system is strongly linked to our intelligence. One could argue that it could either increase or reduce our capacity to cope. Possibly even change our species or provide use with a new system of organs that would make use depent on a centralized food source. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1834002/#!po=1.38889 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1834002/#!po=1.... Truly fascinating stuff!