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Law is not code, prostitution as a concept is illegal. This is sort of like wondering if you could avoid income tax by just doing a bunch of favors for your rea

Law is not code, prostitution as a concept is illegal. This is sort of like wondering if you could avoid income tax by just doing a bunch of favors for your really good friend, and then getting a totally unrelated Christmas present from them.

bfstein 10y ago
FWIW, this is taxable by law. Gifts above a certain amount (I believe $10k) are taxed as normal income.
- cbr 10y ago
  It's also not a gift if it's compensation for doing work.
  - _audakel 10y ago
    but then doesn't the reciever have to pay taxes?
- akurtzhs 10y ago
  At least in the US, this is incorrect. There is a gift tax, but it's paid by the donor, and they can give up to the annual exclusion amount a year without hitting it. This year, the limit's $14,000. Once a gift goes past that for the year, the excess starts counting against the donor's lifetime exclusion and needs to be reported on the donor's taxes. Gift taxes come into play once the lifetime exclusion limit is exceeded, and it's $5.4 million.
pc86 10y ago
> Law is not code Remembering this would put a stop to 90% of legal "discussions" on HN.
- mcphage 10y ago
  It's disappointing how many people here imagine that an incredibly transparent ruse will get them out of legal difficulties no problem. It's like they can't conceive that yes, other people have thought of it before, and yes, it's transparently obvious, and no, you can't get away with a crime with a "gotcha!".
  - pc86 10y ago
    It's because of things like the following scenario, which as a 17 year old with a lead foot, I was "lucky" enough to have happen to me. A police trooper pulled me over for ~80 in a 65 (deserted highway at night). He somehow transposed the last two numbers in my license plate, so I obviously assumed I was home free. Until, while I was on the stand, the judge just looked at me for about 10 seconds, said "Were you driving the car?" "[pause] Yes, your honor." "[gavel slam] Guilty."
- Spivak 10y ago
  Except for when it is code. If you do something that is legal under the letter of the law or when the law is ambiguous you are supposed to be given the benefit of the doubt and granted leniency. If this wasn't the case then lawmakers would have no reason to write laws precisely. It's the other situation where law stops being code. If you do something that is technically illegal but probably oughtn't be then the law can be reinterpreted in your favor. Assuming you followed the absolute letter of the law with your totally-not-a-brothel then you would be fine (until the law is amended).
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    Laws aren't code because they are written in English (or other similarly ambiguous languages). Select parts of laws may have the rigor of a programming language, but the greater portion expresses things for humans, with human ambiguity.
  - burkaman 10y ago
    My point is that laws are often intentionally not written precisely, because it's impossible to enumerate every type of violation in advance. Looking at my own state's prostitution law, you would need to define the following things to get a precise law: "money or its equivalent" "offers" "adultery" "fornication" etc. The law is written in terms of broad concepts that a judge can interpret. In most cases there is no such thing as "absolute letter of the law", partly because English makes that impossible, but mostly because legislating such strict specific definitions would be a bad idea. I think the impossibility of bug-free software makes it clear that we wouldn't want laws written like code.
    - pavel_lishin 10y ago
      Many states do define those very precisely.
SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
Don't rich people basically do exactly that to pay fewer taxes than they're supposed to because favors and gifts aren't taxed like income? I'm not sure your example was the best for showing there aren't loopholes based on overly literal interpretations, given that the tax code is notorious for them.
- burkaman 10y ago
  Ok yeah taxes were probably a bad example. I guess the tax code a lot closer to code that you follow literally than most of the legal system. I hope the point was clear though, that the "spirit of the law" is a real thing, and most clever loopholes will not work with a human judge.

bfstein 10y ago

FWIW, this is taxable by law. Gifts above a certain amount (I believe $10k) are taxed as normal income.

cbr 10y ago
It's also not a gift if it's compensation for doing work.
- _audakel 10y ago
  but then doesn't the reciever have to pay taxes?
akurtzhs 10y ago
At least in the US, this is incorrect. There is a gift tax, but it's paid by the donor, and they can give up to the annual exclusion amount a year without hitting it. This year, the limit's $14,000. Once a gift goes past that for the year, the excess starts counting against the donor's lifetime exclusion and needs to be reported on the donor's taxes. Gift taxes come into play once the lifetime exclusion limit is exceeded, and it's $5.4 million.

pc86 10y ago

> Law is not code Remembering this would put a stop to 90% of legal "discussions" on HN.

mcphage 10y ago
It's disappointing how many people here imagine that an incredibly transparent ruse will get them out of legal difficulties no problem. It's like they can't conceive that yes, other people have thought of it before, and yes, it's transparently obvious, and no, you can't get away with a crime with a "gotcha!".
- pc86 10y ago
  It's because of things like the following scenario, which as a 17 year old with a lead foot, I was "lucky" enough to have happen to me. A police trooper pulled me over for ~80 in a 65 (deserted highway at night). He somehow transposed the last two numbers in my license plate, so I obviously assumed I was home free. Until, while I was on the stand, the judge just looked at me for about 10 seconds, said "Were you driving the car?" "[pause] Yes, your honor." "[gavel slam] Guilty."
Spivak 10y ago
Except for when it is code. If you do something that is legal under the letter of the law or when the law is ambiguous you are supposed to be given the benefit of the doubt and granted leniency. If this wasn't the case then lawmakers would have no reason to write laws precisely. It's the other situation where law stops being code. If you do something that is technically illegal but probably oughtn't be then the law can be reinterpreted in your favor. Assuming you followed the absolute letter of the law with your totally-not-a-brothel then you would be fine (until the law is amended).
- paulddraper 10y ago
  Laws aren't code because they are written in English (or other similarly ambiguous languages). Select parts of laws may have the rigor of a programming language, but the greater portion expresses things for humans, with human ambiguity.
- burkaman 10y ago
  My point is that laws are often intentionally not written precisely, because it's impossible to enumerate every type of violation in advance. Looking at my own state's prostitution law, you would need to define the following things to get a precise law: "money or its equivalent" "offers" "adultery" "fornication" etc. The law is written in terms of broad concepts that a judge can interpret. In most cases there is no such thing as "absolute letter of the law", partly because English makes that impossible, but mostly because legislating such strict specific definitions would be a bad idea. I think the impossibility of bug-free software makes it clear that we wouldn't want laws written like code.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    Many states do define those very precisely.

SomeStupidPoint 10y ago

Don't rich people basically do exactly that to pay fewer taxes than they're supposed to because favors and gifts aren't taxed like income? I'm not sure your example was the best for showing there aren't loopholes based on overly literal interpretations, given that the tax code is notorious for them.

burkaman 10y ago
Ok yeah taxes were probably a bad example. I guess the tax code a lot closer to code that you follow literally than most of the legal system. I hope the point was clear though, that the "spirit of the law" is a real thing, and most clever loopholes will not work with a human judge.