5 ms·

Though I agree with what you say - I would say that the conventions of games are gender oriented. They are made by guys, for guys, and girls can play along. T

Though I agree with what you say - I would say that the conventions of games are gender oriented. They are made by guys, for guys, and girls can play along. The 'mission orientation' - the 'guns/violence' - and 'sports' - while not exclusively a guy thing - they are definitely guy-leaning. Let me say it differently: if you took a totally random sample of girls and gave them each $100M to go off and build the 'best game for them' - they might look really, really different. I don't like the political aspect of 'isms' in games ... I really could care less. But I do think that there are pretty big differences between genders - on the whole.

edblarney 10y ago
To add: I'm not remotely making a political point, I'm not necessarily supporting the thesis of article, and I'm saying nothing about 'women in gaming' yada yada. I'm just saying: I think that especially console game themes are generally a little gender-skewed.
- FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
  Fully agreed. I did a stint @ EA a while back. At least amongst our team, our culture made state school party frats look like enlightened ones. One of the many "games/pranks" other devs would play was called cubicle cropduster. As you walked through the cubicle jungle, one would cropdust a colleague's area by silently evacuating a generous amount of methane. When you work people like beasts of burden, dont be surprised when the behavior becomes more, ahem, primal
brador 10y ago
Moat modern games are made to sell. If the buyers are looking for X then it makes sense that a business should provide them with X to turn the most profit. If females, or anyone, wants separate gameplay mechanics then they need to reward that with cold cash to build an economy and incentivize creation. Else it's all just words and forcing a square block into a circle hole. Cash is the only way to lasting change (see the mobile space for example).
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  The first decade of computer games, the all-time best-seller was King's Quest. It wasn't combat-related. It was problem-solving. It sold double what anything else had ever sold. Because girls liked it too. That was all it took to be #1 - double your demographic.
  - edblarney 10y ago
    If memory serves me, the #1 selling game of all time is Tetris, and it's 50/50 guys girls. Could be wrong.
    - mercer 10y ago
      The Sims did pretty well too, didn't it, and it was quite popular with the female demographic. I vaguely recall something similar for Myst and the genre it created (not to mention the traditional adventure games).
  - torkable 10y ago
    [Citation needed] lol
- edblarney 10y ago
  I get it, I fully agree. That said: the industry is really built around conventions and culture. Guys making games for guys. Marketing to guys. The entire culture skews guys. Of course they might have a hard time 'selling to girls'. This might seem a bit 'sexist' or whatever to use a 'fashion' example, but just as a crude idea ... maybe a social game that made you a 'designer' - and you could design fashion/clothing ... you had to get a budget, design a 'runway show' ... and then get 'audience' (other players) to chime in and comment. You have to hustle and deal to sell the clothes or whatever. Hustle movie stars to schlep your stuff. Have real fashion designers and celebs chime in. Invent new textures, new fabrics. Ok, ok, maybe a terrible idea in reality - but I'm just trying to illustrate a completely different scenario/culture/setting for which there exists no context in gaming as we understand it today. Anyhow. I worked at an Fortune 50 and we were trying to market our 'mostly guy-ish' product to girls, and sitting around the table with 50-something rich fat men who all shopped at Wallmart, and their big idea was 'make it pink' - and that was it! :). Too funny.
advantark2 10y ago
The idea that games are made for guys is in itself sexist, is it not? They're just games, and you're free to interpret them however you'd like.
- mercer 10y ago
  I don't know if it's sexist. If it's a fact, it's just an observation. Facts should ideally not be sexist (although I understand the can of worms such a statement might open). I'm inclined to believe that gaming in general is tilted towards the things that men like (whether culturally or biologically). And I'd welcome game producers/financiers/whatever to invest in games that offer things that traditionally non-gamers would be into, but I can also understand that those kinds of projects are riskier than going for an existing market.
  - advantark2 10y ago
    I am of the opinion that men and women are biologically different, and this leads to psychological differences that create social and cultural differences between the genders. However, unlike many, I don't believe that the differences between the genders are evil, and I don't believe that we should be breaking down all of those differences in the name of equality. With that said, if you see potential in the market, by all means make a video game targeted towards everyone & get rich. That is your right.
  - Pica_soO 10y ago
    Not everybodys escapism fantasy Highpoint in live is scoring a diplomatic victory at a cocktail party, to restore some social equilibrium.
- pessimizer 10y ago
  Only if the idea that tampons are made for women is sexist. It's just an absorbent object, and you're free to use it how you like. These products weren't things that exploded from a volcano, or discovered in the center of an apple pulled from a tree. They were created by people to attract other people enough to surrender cash.
flukus 10y ago
Generally I play somewhat niche strategy games (paradox generally) that are absolutely not mission oriented or particularly violent (most of the violence is abstract). Every time there is a community poll it turns out that only about 1% of the community are female, which is way below the average of the games you're talking about. So I very much doubt it's the mission orientation, guns/violence or sports that are putting women off games.

edblarney 10y ago

To add: I'm not remotely making a political point, I'm not necessarily supporting the thesis of article, and I'm saying nothing about 'women in gaming' yada yada. I'm just saying: I think that especially console game themes are generally a little gender-skewed.

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
Fully agreed. I did a stint @ EA a while back. At least amongst our team, our culture made state school party frats look like enlightened ones. One of the many "games/pranks" other devs would play was called cubicle cropduster. As you walked through the cubicle jungle, one would cropdust a colleague's area by silently evacuating a generous amount of methane. When you work people like beasts of burden, dont be surprised when the behavior becomes more, ahem, primal

brador 10y ago

Moat modern games are made to sell. If the buyers are looking for X then it makes sense that a business should provide them with X to turn the most profit. If females, or anyone, wants separate gameplay mechanics then they need to reward that with cold cash to build an economy and incentivize creation. Else it's all just words and forcing a square block into a circle hole. Cash is the only way to lasting change (see the mobile space for example).

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
The first decade of computer games, the all-time best-seller was King's Quest. It wasn't combat-related. It was problem-solving. It sold double what anything else had ever sold. Because girls liked it too. That was all it took to be #1 - double your demographic.
- edblarney 10y ago
  If memory serves me, the #1 selling game of all time is Tetris, and it's 50/50 guys girls. Could be wrong.
  - mercer 10y ago
    The Sims did pretty well too, didn't it, and it was quite popular with the female demographic. I vaguely recall something similar for Myst and the genre it created (not to mention the traditional adventure games).
- torkable 10y ago
  [Citation needed] lol
edblarney 10y ago
I get it, I fully agree. That said: the industry is really built around conventions and culture. Guys making games for guys. Marketing to guys. The entire culture skews guys. Of course they might have a hard time 'selling to girls'. This might seem a bit 'sexist' or whatever to use a 'fashion' example, but just as a crude idea ... maybe a social game that made you a 'designer' - and you could design fashion/clothing ... you had to get a budget, design a 'runway show' ... and then get 'audience' (other players) to chime in and comment. You have to hustle and deal to sell the clothes or whatever. Hustle movie stars to schlep your stuff. Have real fashion designers and celebs chime in. Invent new textures, new fabrics. Ok, ok, maybe a terrible idea in reality - but I'm just trying to illustrate a completely different scenario/culture/setting for which there exists no context in gaming as we understand it today. Anyhow. I worked at an Fortune 50 and we were trying to market our 'mostly guy-ish' product to girls, and sitting around the table with 50-something rich fat men who all shopped at Wallmart, and their big idea was 'make it pink' - and that was it! :). Too funny.

advantark2 10y ago

The idea that games are made for guys is in itself sexist, is it not? They're just games, and you're free to interpret them however you'd like.

mercer 10y ago
I don't know if it's sexist. If it's a fact, it's just an observation. Facts should ideally not be sexist (although I understand the can of worms such a statement might open). I'm inclined to believe that gaming in general is tilted towards the things that men like (whether culturally or biologically). And I'd welcome game producers/financiers/whatever to invest in games that offer things that traditionally non-gamers would be into, but I can also understand that those kinds of projects are riskier than going for an existing market.
- advantark2 10y ago
  I am of the opinion that men and women are biologically different, and this leads to psychological differences that create social and cultural differences between the genders. However, unlike many, I don't believe that the differences between the genders are evil, and I don't believe that we should be breaking down all of those differences in the name of equality. With that said, if you see potential in the market, by all means make a video game targeted towards everyone & get rich. That is your right.
- Pica_soO 10y ago
  Not everybodys escapism fantasy Highpoint in live is scoring a diplomatic victory at a cocktail party, to restore some social equilibrium.
pessimizer 10y ago
Only if the idea that tampons are made for women is sexist. It's just an absorbent object, and you're free to use it how you like. These products weren't things that exploded from a volcano, or discovered in the center of an apple pulled from a tree. They were created by people to attract other people enough to surrender cash.

flukus 10y ago

Generally I play somewhat niche strategy games (paradox generally) that are absolutely not mission oriented or particularly violent (most of the violence is abstract). Every time there is a community poll it turns out that only about 1% of the community are female, which is way below the average of the games you're talking about. So I very much doubt it's the mission orientation, guns/violence or sports that are putting women off games.