5 ms·

ok, but you are only seeing the downsides, let me add the benefits: - more efficient CPU (less battery is possible without less battery runtime) - better disp

ok, but you are only seeing the downsides, let me add the benefits: - more efficient CPU (less battery is possible without less battery runtime) - better display (Display P3 color, more nits) - better sound - lighter - better structural engineering (all metal, even the hinges) and therefor also no apple backlight (which makes the structural part better). - Charging with normal smartphone battery packs is now possible.

monkmartinez 10y ago
You'll need dongles for 2 of the 6 positives you mentioned. :\
endymi0n 10y ago
Sorry, but this is wrong. "less battery is possible without less battery runtime" -> doesn't work with CPU bound software like Hangouts or external appliances that need to be powered. Fact is the battery is much smaller. - Better display: granted - Better sound: Nope, there's no substitute for bass response, all of which gets better the larger the speaker and enclosure is - Lighter: Yes. This is a professional's priority number 2749 though. - Structural engineering: It's half as thin. If you know mechanics, you'd need a material double as tough in order to make up for the loss in structural stability. Not gonna happen, maybe their most recent super duper aluminum alloy is 20-30% tougher. Overall, a thinner structure is ALWAYS more brittle. All in all, OP is completely right: This simply isn't a professional machine.
- matthewmacleod 10y ago
  This simply isn't a professional machine. It's far from clear that this is 'simple'.
- dpark 10y ago
  > Lighter: Yes. This is a professional's priority number 2749 though. I use my laptop in a professional capacity and weight is a huge factor for me. I carry my laptop everywhere. Incremental yearly changes in weight have generally not been that impressive but in aggregate the difference is huge. Go pick up a 10-year-old laptop and you'll probably agree. > Structural engineering: It's half as thin. If you know mechanics, you'd need a material double as tough in order to make up for the loss in structural stability. I'm no mechanical engineer, but I don't believe that's correct. There are a number of factors that impact the structural stability of an item. The internal structure has a huge impact, which is why I-beams exist. It's also not as if the space saved is the result of just milling out half of the original aluminum. The actual metal case is probably the same thickness or close.
  - blackoil 10y ago
    most developer(few thousand) in my company and most other I know of work for hours on desk in stretch, attend few meetings within office, use it some more in commute, back at home work/play some more on desk/bed. Once in few months travel to client/remote office/conference where they have to carry it for stretch. I expect same pattern from graphic/app designers, animators, video editor and PROfessionals in general. Sure marketing, consultant and similar profile move a lot but they don't need a pro level performance. So a lightweight/reasonable performance Macbook line and a little heavier/high performance Macbook Pro makes so much more sense.
    - dpark 10y ago
      You're describing people who are picking up and carrying their laptops multiple times per day and carry it back and forth to work and home every day. These people seem like the target market for a lightweight laptop.
      - anon12345690 10y ago
        The scenarios you describe are not that bad. People are just fine carrying a few pounds around.
      - blackoil 10y ago
        carrying but not for long, never seen a programmer wary of to carry their current Macbook Pro few floors down the lift and then walk to meeting room. If you start feeling the weight for this little, problem is not your laptop. And, I am all for lightweight if that does not include compromise in battery life and performance.
        dpark 10y ago
        I don't think I said that people have trouble carrying their laptops. No one really had trouble carrying 10 lb laptops either but it's quite a bit nicer to carry a modern lighter laptop. Forever people have said that they would prefer a heavier laptop with a bigger battery and for better or worse, companies have generally ignored that. I don't think it's really a "pro" issue either way.
falcolas 10y ago
> Charging with normal smartphone battery packs is now possible. I was going to rebut this statement as useless (my instincts were telling me that it should be under 10% of the total built-in battery), then I did the math. Your typical high capacity charging pack providing 15,000 mAh actually has almost double the capacity of a built in battery for the 13" MBP. 15,000 mAh * 5V / 1000 = 75 watt-hours Compared to ~50 watt-hours for the MBP I'll say that again. A sub $50 battery pack provides almost double the battery life of the one built into a $1,500 laptop.
- helb 10y ago
  > 15,000 mAh * 5V / 1000 = 75 watt-hours It would be less, given the (dis)charging efficiency. Quick look at search results suggests about 80% (so ~60Wh), which is still nice for that price though.

monkmartinez 10y ago

You'll need dongles for 2 of the 6 positives you mentioned. :\

endymi0n 10y ago

Sorry, but this is wrong. "less battery is possible without less battery runtime" -> doesn't work with CPU bound software like Hangouts or external appliances that need to be powered. Fact is the battery is much smaller. - Better display: granted - Better sound: Nope, there's no substitute for bass response, all of which gets better the larger the speaker and enclosure is - Lighter: Yes. This is a professional's priority number 2749 though. - Structural engineering: It's half as thin. If you know mechanics, you'd need a material double as tough in order to make up for the loss in structural stability. Not gonna happen, maybe their most recent super duper aluminum alloy is 20-30% tougher. Overall, a thinner structure is ALWAYS more brittle. All in all, OP is completely right: This simply isn't a professional machine.

matthewmacleod 10y ago
This simply isn't a professional machine. It's far from clear that this is 'simple'.
dpark 10y ago
> Lighter: Yes. This is a professional's priority number 2749 though. I use my laptop in a professional capacity and weight is a huge factor for me. I carry my laptop everywhere. Incremental yearly changes in weight have generally not been that impressive but in aggregate the difference is huge. Go pick up a 10-year-old laptop and you'll probably agree. > Structural engineering: It's half as thin. If you know mechanics, you'd need a material double as tough in order to make up for the loss in structural stability. I'm no mechanical engineer, but I don't believe that's correct. There are a number of factors that impact the structural stability of an item. The internal structure has a huge impact, which is why I-beams exist. It's also not as if the space saved is the result of just milling out half of the original aluminum. The actual metal case is probably the same thickness or close.
- blackoil 10y ago
  most developer(few thousand) in my company and most other I know of work for hours on desk in stretch, attend few meetings within office, use it some more in commute, back at home work/play some more on desk/bed. Once in few months travel to client/remote office/conference where they have to carry it for stretch. I expect same pattern from graphic/app designers, animators, video editor and PROfessionals in general. Sure marketing, consultant and similar profile move a lot but they don't need a pro level performance. So a lightweight/reasonable performance Macbook line and a little heavier/high performance Macbook Pro makes so much more sense.
  - dpark 10y ago
    You're describing people who are picking up and carrying their laptops multiple times per day and carry it back and forth to work and home every day. These people seem like the target market for a lightweight laptop.
    - anon12345690 10y ago
      The scenarios you describe are not that bad. People are just fine carrying a few pounds around.
    - blackoil 10y ago
      carrying but not for long, never seen a programmer wary of to carry their current Macbook Pro few floors down the lift and then walk to meeting room. If you start feeling the weight for this little, problem is not your laptop. And, I am all for lightweight if that does not include compromise in battery life and performance.
      - dpark 10y ago
        I don't think I said that people have trouble carrying their laptops. No one really had trouble carrying 10 lb laptops either but it's quite a bit nicer to carry a modern lighter laptop. Forever people have said that they would prefer a heavier laptop with a bigger battery and for better or worse, companies have generally ignored that. I don't think it's really a "pro" issue either way.

falcolas 10y ago

> Charging with normal smartphone battery packs is now possible. I was going to rebut this statement as useless (my instincts were telling me that it should be under 10% of the total built-in battery), then I did the math. Your typical high capacity charging pack providing 15,000 mAh actually has almost double the capacity of a built in battery for the 13" MBP. 15,000 mAh * 5V / 1000 = 75 watt-hours Compared to ~50 watt-hours for the MBP I'll say that again. A sub $50 battery pack provides almost double the battery life of the one built into a $1,500 laptop.

helb 10y ago
> 15,000 mAh * 5V / 1000 = 75 watt-hours It would be less, given the (dis)charging efficiency. Quick look at search results suggests about 80% (so ~60Wh), which is still nice for that price though.