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Skipping the whole pro-vs-not-pro debate entirely, I never understand the whole 'pros are smart with their money and Mac is poor bang for buck' argument. If a

Skipping the whole pro-vs-not-pro debate entirely, I never understand the whole 'pros are smart with their money and Mac is poor bang for buck' argument. If a pro is someone who earns their living through using a computer, what's more important? Saving a few hundred dollars on a laptop? Or purchasing the machine that you feel allows you to work the most efficiently?

Veen 10y ago
> Saving a few hundred dollars on a laptop? Or purchasing the machine that you feel allows you to work the most efficiently? It's a fair point, but there's a limit. Pro's will pay over the odds for efficiency and ruggedness, but the new pricing has an air of exploitation. At some point, the prices become unjustifiable.
- MrScruff 10y ago
  > At some point, the prices become unjustifiable. In what sense though? Because the premium they're charging doesn't feel fair? That sounds odd to me. Pros have a history of paying ridiculous sums to work on exotic hardware like SGI's because it was the best tool for the job. A few hundred doesn't seem like that big a deal.
  - mercer 10y ago
    I'm afraid Apple is thinking exactly this way. As a 'Pro customer' I know that I can and probably will end up paying more for 'less' eventually and get one of the new MacBook Pros. But for the first time in my life as an Apple user (just short of 10 years, I think), for the very first time I feel the price is only barely justifiable and I actively looked into alternatives. I suppose the fact that I couldn't find an alternative that was good enough validates Apple's current offering and pricing. But it's a solid chunk of goodwill gone, and the moment I find an alternative that is good enough, they'll lose at least one well-paying customer. And even then it's probably not a problem for them. They make so much on their mobile devices that the Pro can be an afterthought.
  - Veen 10y ago
    I'm happy to pay more for a MacBook than I would the equivalent Windows machine or Linux laptop because I value the experience of using MacOS, the superior (for me) software ecosystem, and what I consider to be better hardware and support. But, I don't attach an infinite value to each of those. I will pay more for those things — even more than they're worth on a strictly rational assessment — because I can't get them elsewhere. But at a certain point, the "Apple premium" becomes so obviously punitive that I start thinking that it wouldn't be so bad to deal with Windows or Linux, that the hardware from other manufacturers isn't all that inferior, that I'll put up with the support from a Lenovo. But, on the other hand, I'll probably just hang on to what I have until the next iteration.
marricks 10y ago
Every windows laptop I've bought has had a faulty hinge or hard drive failure. I've seen similar things with my girlfriend's computer. My next laptop I want to be more expensive but last half a decade. Sadly XPS 13 and other "leading" windows laptops seem to fall victim to the same less than perfect manufacturing. Apple charges more, but there laptops are also well built. Something I use every day for a long time I don't want to save a few bucks on it the short term.
- WayneBro 10y ago
  Every Windows laptop I've bought has worked perfectly, with zero defects. Same thing for my wife. And we're both heavy users who use our machines all day for work. We've had every brand of PC and never had any problems. Ever. Not even kidding a little. The only problems I've ever had were with Apple hardware. Their laptops would overheat and the Mac OS would crash often. In every Macbook Pro I've had, the batteries died sooner than any other laptop brand. Macbook Pros are terrible overpriced crap. (But they're really thin now, yay!) Furthermore, upgrades and repairs are next to impossible or a real pain in the butt with Apple hardware. One of my Apple machines is a 2012 Mac Pro that I want to get a new video card for - but can I go to Amazon and just buy one off the shelf? No. I must go to www.macvidcards.com to get a card that works fully. I must also buy special, non-standard internal power cables for it.
  - mercer 10y ago
    Is there a Windows equivalent of Time Machine, which offers backups but also setting up your new computer with the old OS in no time? And how are the trackpads of your current machine? These are my main concerns before I make any jump back to Microsoft-world (which I'm really considering).
    - WayneBro 10y ago
      Backups - http://lifehacker.com/how-to-back-up-your-computer-automatically-with-windows-1762867473 http://lifehacker.com/how-to-back-up-your-computer-automatic... I don't use touchpads, even on my laptops. I use a vertical five button wireless mouse because I don't like to rotate my cuff all day since I get repetitive stress syndrome. However, my wife does use the touchpad on her Surface Pro 3 and it works just fine for her. Actually there is one touch pad that I do use for my entertainment PC in my living room and that is a logitech K400R. It also works just fine with two finger scrolling, swiping etc.

Veen 10y ago

> Saving a few hundred dollars on a laptop? Or purchasing the machine that you feel allows you to work the most efficiently? It's a fair point, but there's a limit. Pro's will pay over the odds for efficiency and ruggedness, but the new pricing has an air of exploitation. At some point, the prices become unjustifiable.

MrScruff 10y ago
> At some point, the prices become unjustifiable. In what sense though? Because the premium they're charging doesn't feel fair? That sounds odd to me. Pros have a history of paying ridiculous sums to work on exotic hardware like SGI's because it was the best tool for the job. A few hundred doesn't seem like that big a deal.
- mercer 10y ago
  I'm afraid Apple is thinking exactly this way. As a 'Pro customer' I know that I can and probably will end up paying more for 'less' eventually and get one of the new MacBook Pros. But for the first time in my life as an Apple user (just short of 10 years, I think), for the very first time I feel the price is only barely justifiable and I actively looked into alternatives. I suppose the fact that I couldn't find an alternative that was good enough validates Apple's current offering and pricing. But it's a solid chunk of goodwill gone, and the moment I find an alternative that is good enough, they'll lose at least one well-paying customer. And even then it's probably not a problem for them. They make so much on their mobile devices that the Pro can be an afterthought.
- Veen 10y ago
  I'm happy to pay more for a MacBook than I would the equivalent Windows machine or Linux laptop because I value the experience of using MacOS, the superior (for me) software ecosystem, and what I consider to be better hardware and support. But, I don't attach an infinite value to each of those. I will pay more for those things — even more than they're worth on a strictly rational assessment — because I can't get them elsewhere. But at a certain point, the "Apple premium" becomes so obviously punitive that I start thinking that it wouldn't be so bad to deal with Windows or Linux, that the hardware from other manufacturers isn't all that inferior, that I'll put up with the support from a Lenovo. But, on the other hand, I'll probably just hang on to what I have until the next iteration.

marricks 10y ago

Every windows laptop I've bought has had a faulty hinge or hard drive failure. I've seen similar things with my girlfriend's computer. My next laptop I want to be more expensive but last half a decade. Sadly XPS 13 and other "leading" windows laptops seem to fall victim to the same less than perfect manufacturing. Apple charges more, but there laptops are also well built. Something I use every day for a long time I don't want to save a few bucks on it the short term.

WayneBro 10y ago
Every Windows laptop I've bought has worked perfectly, with zero defects. Same thing for my wife. And we're both heavy users who use our machines all day for work. We've had every brand of PC and never had any problems. Ever. Not even kidding a little. The only problems I've ever had were with Apple hardware. Their laptops would overheat and the Mac OS would crash often. In every Macbook Pro I've had, the batteries died sooner than any other laptop brand. Macbook Pros are terrible overpriced crap. (But they're really thin now, yay!) Furthermore, upgrades and repairs are next to impossible or a real pain in the butt with Apple hardware. One of my Apple machines is a 2012 Mac Pro that I want to get a new video card for - but can I go to Amazon and just buy one off the shelf? No. I must go to www.macvidcards.com to get a card that works fully. I must also buy special, non-standard internal power cables for it.
- mercer 10y ago
  Is there a Windows equivalent of Time Machine, which offers backups but also setting up your new computer with the old OS in no time? And how are the trackpads of your current machine? These are my main concerns before I make any jump back to Microsoft-world (which I'm really considering).
  - WayneBro 10y ago
    Backups - http://lifehacker.com/how-to-back-up-your-computer-automatically-with-windows-1762867473 http://lifehacker.com/how-to-back-up-your-computer-automatic... I don't use touchpads, even on my laptops. I use a vertical five button wireless mouse because I don't like to rotate my cuff all day since I get repetitive stress syndrome. However, my wife does use the touchpad on her Surface Pro 3 and it works just fine for her. Actually there is one touch pad that I do use for my entertainment PC in my living room and that is a logitech K400R. It also works just fine with two finger scrolling, swiping etc.