7 ms·

As a developer, I really don't see a MacBook Pro any more. They should have really called it a MacBook Air Pro. Also being a MBPr 2012 owner. When thinking a

As a developer, I really don't see a MacBook Pro any more. They should have really called it a MacBook Air Pro. Also being a MBPr 2012 owner. When thinking about an upgrade, I was wanting MORE of the same but BETTER specifications. This is what I am seeing, when I look at the MBP 2016. - No magsafe - No glowing apple logo - No startup chime - No SD card slot - No HDMI - No USB 2/3 ports - No 32GB / DDR4 ram - No Nvidia graphic card - Reduced battery - Reduced Keyboard travel There is nothing that shows "Apple innovation" in this Macbook Pro 2016. As such, no upgrade from me. I am more than happy to wait another 18 months for the next refresh. I really hope Apple takes on board why developers really loved the previous MBP line.

Exuma 10y ago
Also............ no vim key. Kill me
- Veen 10y ago
  The lower tier model does have an escape key. For Touch Bar machines, there will be an escape "key" on the touch bar, which I don't think will be much more inconvenient than reaching for the actual escape key. Lots of Vim users map that key to something else anyway — it's not well placed for such a commonly used key.
- striking 10y ago
  Ctrl-[ is a better Escape, though. (and is enabled by default in Vim, in your terminal, and Vim modes in other editors.) You don't even have to lift your fingers off the home row.
  - Matthias247 10y ago
    However it's a console escape key, which means it doesn't work in graphical applications (VS Code, Atom, IDEs, ...). You might also want vim mode there. Or want easy access to escape for other reasons (intellisense can sometimes be annoying, ...).
    - striking 10y ago
      Sublime's Vim mode (https://www.sublimetext.com/docs/2/vintage.html https://www.sublimetext.com/docs/2/vintage.html) > Vintage supports these ctrl key bindings: * Ctrl+[: Escape [... others] Atom-vim-mode-plus has it by default. https://github.com/t9md/atom-vim-mode-plus/blob/master/keymaps/vim-mode-plus.cson#L14 https://github.com/t9md/atom-vim-mode-plus/blob/master/keyma... VSCodeVim doesn't have it by default, but it's an option. https://github.com/VSCodeVim/Vim#usectrlkeys https://github.com/VSCodeVim/Vim#usectrlkeys If you need Escape, there is always a way to get it. Whether you bind the touch bar top-left to Escape (which you should in an editing application basically and nowhere else) or you use the widely-held Ctrl-[ default bind from your favorite Vim mode. Plus, the agency of being able to dynamically rebind the rest of the keys or use it as a separate HUD could be seen as useful. I agree the MacBookPro 2016 is bad. But this is a stupid reason to think it's bad.
  - Exuma 10y ago
    I use that a lot but I like both depending on what I'm doing. It also kills command+F3 which I use constantly
- nashashmi 10y ago
  Vim ... reimagined with a touch bar interface. Just wait.
- helb 10y ago
  It's easy to remap CapsLock (which is in a more convenient position than original Esc key IMO) or something to act as escape. I think i would be bothered by missing F keys more…
stinos 10y ago
Getting rid of that dreaded chime and glowing logo are the actual Pro-moves :]
- ithinkinstereo 10y ago
  I'm sad to see the glowing logo go. That was a defining element of MacBooks for me. Visually speaking, nothing really differentiates MacBooks from their Samsung/Dell/etc clones anymore.
  - iammyIP 10y ago
    It was just visual pollution for the people not using the computer. A public disservice. Would you like it, if i walked around and shine a flashlight randomly into your face? It however also was a good way to separate polite people from the more mindless ones, depending on wether or not they put a sticker or other obstruction on it.
    - simonswords82 10y ago
      Crikey, I never realised my glowing MacBook Air logo was visual pollution and by not covering it I was breaking an implied social contract with my fellow humans. Good job I'm upgrading to the latest MBP and upon receipt will cease the ongoing infliction of my selfish ways on the general public.
    - striking 10y ago
      Wow, I didn't realize others felt so strongly about this. Now I feel like a rebel for just not covering my glowing Apple logo. That's a good way to start the day. After attending a hackathon yesterday, I was going to cover my Mac with the stickers I picked up. But just for you, I'm going to leave the logo uncovered.
      - iammyIP 10y ago
        No problem, if i would be in a situation where it's constantly in my peripheral view, i would talk to you. Would you refuse, i would not start a fight, but just look for another place or another way to block the view for myself. If i was Santa Claus, you would however get no gift.
nashashmi 10y ago
USB-C is celebrated as the dock mode connector. Isn't a constant dock to all those great things you mentioned sufficient? Is it really necessary to have all those ports everywhere you go? Take HDMI for example: do you really need that everywhere such that an extension will not work? Or a graphics card: another one cannot be added via USB-C? The rest of your points are pretty funny e.g. no glowing apple logo! [edit] For comments to this post, I add Apple is known for eliminating clutter before the industry does, without regard to cost. By making every user specifically buy adapters if they need it, they are simplifying the product, conserving resources, and making money too. Win, win, win.
- helthanatos 10y ago
  It's about convenience and servicing the greatest number of people. Some may need an SD slot often. Others may need to plug into an external display wherever they go. Maybe in five years C will be more universal, but now is not the time to remove them. They should have also left 1 or 2 USB-A ports. I don't have a single USB-C device.
- cakes 10y ago
  having a laptop currently (Latitude 7370) which has only one "classic" usb slot...I'd kill for 2...so having none would be even harder. It comes down to doing the simple things like using USB flash drives quickly without immediately needing a dongle.
- samtho 10y ago
  I agree that USB-C is awesome and is technically superior in every way. The problem is that right now very few things actually support being attached to a USB C host without some sort of adapter. My biggest gripe, however, is the sudden loss of Magsafe in favor of USB-C charging only. This is a huge step backwards as Magsafe was developed to protect the computer and the charger from damage in case of a sudden, omni-directional tug. I can't imagine the internals of a USB-C connector holding up to that abuse. While they say you wont need to charge it as frequently, I don't buy that this will always be the case, not to mention it is very difficult to change user behavior and people will still attempt to charge it casually.
provemewrong 10y ago
I find it amusing that you list "no glowing apple logo" as a downside. That's pretty much the only good part about the new MacBook Pro in my book. Besides being obnoxious (which is admittedly subjective), it lets light through in both directions. So when you have a strong enough light source in front of you, you can see a ghostly Apple logo in the middle of your screen. Chime too, I had to manually disable it on the my old MBP, why would anyone want that is beyond me.
pmarreck 10y ago
As an owner of a mid-2014 Macbook Pro who is tired of the trackpad clicker clicking itself when the case is warped even a quarter of a millimeter (such as on my... lap... it's a laptop, after all), I appreciate the new solid-state trackpad taken from the Macbook.
- travv0 10y ago
  Are you referring to the trackpad with the haptic feedback? That was on last year's models as well.
apercu 10y ago
I had a few Powerbooks in the 90's. I can't remember which one it was (I think it was a Pismo) but I was working on the couch one day with the laptop on a small stool in front of me. Someone knocked on the door and I got up, catching the power cord on my leg. The stool fell over and the screen shattered. Magsafe is definitely a great feature on my MBPro 2012
therealmarv 10y ago
ok, but you are only seeing the downsides, let me add the benefits: - more efficient CPU (less battery is possible without less battery runtime) - better display (Display P3 color, more nits) - better sound - lighter - better structural engineering (all metal, even the hinges) and therefor also no apple backlight (which makes the structural part better). - Charging with normal smartphone battery packs is now possible.
- monkmartinez 10y ago
  You'll need dongles for 2 of the 6 positives you mentioned. :\
- endymi0n 10y ago
  Sorry, but this is wrong. "less battery is possible without less battery runtime" -> doesn't work with CPU bound software like Hangouts or external appliances that need to be powered. Fact is the battery is much smaller. - Better display: granted - Better sound: Nope, there's no substitute for bass response, all of which gets better the larger the speaker and enclosure is - Lighter: Yes. This is a professional's priority number 2749 though. - Structural engineering: It's half as thin. If you know mechanics, you'd need a material double as tough in order to make up for the loss in structural stability. Not gonna happen, maybe their most recent super duper aluminum alloy is 20-30% tougher. Overall, a thinner structure is ALWAYS more brittle. All in all, OP is completely right: This simply isn't a professional machine.
  - matthewmacleod 10y ago
    This simply isn't a professional machine. It's far from clear that this is 'simple'.
  - dpark 10y ago
    > Lighter: Yes. This is a professional's priority number 2749 though. I use my laptop in a professional capacity and weight is a huge factor for me. I carry my laptop everywhere. Incremental yearly changes in weight have generally not been that impressive but in aggregate the difference is huge. Go pick up a 10-year-old laptop and you'll probably agree. > Structural engineering: It's half as thin. If you know mechanics, you'd need a material double as tough in order to make up for the loss in structural stability. I'm no mechanical engineer, but I don't believe that's correct. There are a number of factors that impact the structural stability of an item. The internal structure has a huge impact, which is why I-beams exist. It's also not as if the space saved is the result of just milling out half of the original aluminum. The actual metal case is probably the same thickness or close.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
ebbv 10y ago
I'm in the same boat. I have a 2012 rMBP and I am sticking with it instead of getting one of these new machines. They bring nothing to the table I care about. They have optimized for thinness and lightness where those should be nice bonuses on a machine focused on being a fantastic work machine for professional developers. Not a machine focused on being thin and light that developers can "make due" with.
QuantumRoar 10y ago
Apple has a lot of developers. I wonder what they think about the new MBPs. There are so many complaints from developers that I cannot believe that all Apple engineers are happy with their new choices in MBPs. I wonder if a lot of displeased Apple engineers can change the direction the Pro stuff is headed.
- matthewmacleod 10y ago
  Don't ever forget that you're listening to the loud echo-chamber noise of the internet, though! People who don't think there isn't much wrong with the new MBPs aren't going to make a lot of noise about that fact.
  - fgandiya 10y ago
    Exactly. I work at my college's library and we lend out the top line 15" MBP complete with GPU and 16GB RAM which are almost always checked out. Most of the patrons only use Word and Safari on them anyway.
- mercer 10y ago
  For me the main issue is that the 4-port fully-spec'd-out version is just too expensive. If not for the price I could live with the choices. I suspect Apple developers would be able to afford the beefiest model, assuming they don't get it for free. So there's that.
endymi0n 10y ago
At their rate of taking sane stuff away in the name of "design", their 2017 MacBook Pro and the 2017 iPad Pro will be the same device. Because by now, there's honestly not so much more to lose than 3 USB-C connectors and a keyboard.
cobralibre 10y ago
I'm curious about the lack of a hardware power button. I wonder how one forces one of these new Macs to shut down when it hangs?
ap3 10y ago
What if there is no wifi ? It doesn't have an ethernet jack or at least a comm/serial port You also forgot about the vga, mouse/kb ports, also no slot for CF cards :( How am I supposed to connect to a printer with this pro machine? It has no printer port.

Exuma 10y ago

Also............ no vim key. Kill me

Veen 10y ago
The lower tier model does have an escape key. For Touch Bar machines, there will be an escape "key" on the touch bar, which I don't think will be much more inconvenient than reaching for the actual escape key. Lots of Vim users map that key to something else anyway — it's not well placed for such a commonly used key.
striking 10y ago
Ctrl-[ is a better Escape, though. (and is enabled by default in Vim, in your terminal, and Vim modes in other editors.) You don't even have to lift your fingers off the home row.
- Matthias247 10y ago
  However it's a console escape key, which means it doesn't work in graphical applications (VS Code, Atom, IDEs, ...). You might also want vim mode there. Or want easy access to escape for other reasons (intellisense can sometimes be annoying, ...).
  - striking 10y ago
    Sublime's Vim mode (https://www.sublimetext.com/docs/2/vintage.html https://www.sublimetext.com/docs/2/vintage.html) > Vintage supports these ctrl key bindings: * Ctrl+[: Escape [... others] Atom-vim-mode-plus has it by default. https://github.com/t9md/atom-vim-mode-plus/blob/master/keymaps/vim-mode-plus.cson#L14 https://github.com/t9md/atom-vim-mode-plus/blob/master/keyma... VSCodeVim doesn't have it by default, but it's an option. https://github.com/VSCodeVim/Vim#usectrlkeys https://github.com/VSCodeVim/Vim#usectrlkeys If you need Escape, there is always a way to get it. Whether you bind the touch bar top-left to Escape (which you should in an editing application basically and nowhere else) or you use the widely-held Ctrl-[ default bind from your favorite Vim mode. Plus, the agency of being able to dynamically rebind the rest of the keys or use it as a separate HUD could be seen as useful. I agree the MacBookPro 2016 is bad. But this is a stupid reason to think it's bad.
- Exuma 10y ago
  I use that a lot but I like both depending on what I'm doing. It also kills command+F3 which I use constantly
nashashmi 10y ago
Vim ... reimagined with a touch bar interface. Just wait.
helb 10y ago
It's easy to remap CapsLock (which is in a more convenient position than original Esc key IMO) or something to act as escape. I think i would be bothered by missing F keys more…

stinos 10y ago

Getting rid of that dreaded chime and glowing logo are the actual Pro-moves :]

ithinkinstereo 10y ago
I'm sad to see the glowing logo go. That was a defining element of MacBooks for me. Visually speaking, nothing really differentiates MacBooks from their Samsung/Dell/etc clones anymore.
- iammyIP 10y ago
  It was just visual pollution for the people not using the computer. A public disservice. Would you like it, if i walked around and shine a flashlight randomly into your face? It however also was a good way to separate polite people from the more mindless ones, depending on wether or not they put a sticker or other obstruction on it.
  - simonswords82 10y ago
    Crikey, I never realised my glowing MacBook Air logo was visual pollution and by not covering it I was breaking an implied social contract with my fellow humans. Good job I'm upgrading to the latest MBP and upon receipt will cease the ongoing infliction of my selfish ways on the general public.
  - striking 10y ago
    Wow, I didn't realize others felt so strongly about this. Now I feel like a rebel for just not covering my glowing Apple logo. That's a good way to start the day. After attending a hackathon yesterday, I was going to cover my Mac with the stickers I picked up. But just for you, I'm going to leave the logo uncovered.
    - iammyIP 10y ago
      No problem, if i would be in a situation where it's constantly in my peripheral view, i would talk to you. Would you refuse, i would not start a fight, but just look for another place or another way to block the view for myself. If i was Santa Claus, you would however get no gift.

nashashmi 10y ago

USB-C is celebrated as the dock mode connector. Isn't a constant dock to all those great things you mentioned sufficient? Is it really necessary to have all those ports everywhere you go? Take HDMI for example: do you really need that everywhere such that an extension will not work? Or a graphics card: another one cannot be added via USB-C? The rest of your points are pretty funny e.g. no glowing apple logo! [edit] For comments to this post, I add Apple is known for eliminating clutter before the industry does, without regard to cost. By making every user specifically buy adapters if they need it, they are simplifying the product, conserving resources, and making money too. Win, win, win.

helthanatos 10y ago
It's about convenience and servicing the greatest number of people. Some may need an SD slot often. Others may need to plug into an external display wherever they go. Maybe in five years C will be more universal, but now is not the time to remove them. They should have also left 1 or 2 USB-A ports. I don't have a single USB-C device.
cakes 10y ago
having a laptop currently (Latitude 7370) which has only one "classic" usb slot...I'd kill for 2...so having none would be even harder. It comes down to doing the simple things like using USB flash drives quickly without immediately needing a dongle.
samtho 10y ago
I agree that USB-C is awesome and is technically superior in every way. The problem is that right now very few things actually support being attached to a USB C host without some sort of adapter. My biggest gripe, however, is the sudden loss of Magsafe in favor of USB-C charging only. This is a huge step backwards as Magsafe was developed to protect the computer and the charger from damage in case of a sudden, omni-directional tug. I can't imagine the internals of a USB-C connector holding up to that abuse. While they say you wont need to charge it as frequently, I don't buy that this will always be the case, not to mention it is very difficult to change user behavior and people will still attempt to charge it casually.

provemewrong 10y ago

I find it amusing that you list "no glowing apple logo" as a downside. That's pretty much the only good part about the new MacBook Pro in my book. Besides being obnoxious (which is admittedly subjective), it lets light through in both directions. So when you have a strong enough light source in front of you, you can see a ghostly Apple logo in the middle of your screen. Chime too, I had to manually disable it on the my old MBP, why would anyone want that is beyond me.

pmarreck 10y ago

As an owner of a mid-2014 Macbook Pro who is tired of the trackpad clicker clicking itself when the case is warped even a quarter of a millimeter (such as on my... lap... it's a laptop, after all), I appreciate the new solid-state trackpad taken from the Macbook.

travv0 10y ago
Are you referring to the trackpad with the haptic feedback? That was on last year's models as well.

apercu 10y ago

I had a few Powerbooks in the 90's. I can't remember which one it was (I think it was a Pismo) but I was working on the couch one day with the laptop on a small stool in front of me. Someone knocked on the door and I got up, catching the power cord on my leg. The stool fell over and the screen shattered. Magsafe is definitely a great feature on my MBPro 2012

therealmarv 10y ago

ok, but you are only seeing the downsides, let me add the benefits: - more efficient CPU (less battery is possible without less battery runtime) - better display (Display P3 color, more nits) - better sound - lighter - better structural engineering (all metal, even the hinges) and therefor also no apple backlight (which makes the structural part better). - Charging with normal smartphone battery packs is now possible.

monkmartinez 10y ago
You'll need dongles for 2 of the 6 positives you mentioned. :\
endymi0n 10y ago
Sorry, but this is wrong. "less battery is possible without less battery runtime" -> doesn't work with CPU bound software like Hangouts or external appliances that need to be powered. Fact is the battery is much smaller. - Better display: granted - Better sound: Nope, there's no substitute for bass response, all of which gets better the larger the speaker and enclosure is - Lighter: Yes. This is a professional's priority number 2749 though. - Structural engineering: It's half as thin. If you know mechanics, you'd need a material double as tough in order to make up for the loss in structural stability. Not gonna happen, maybe their most recent super duper aluminum alloy is 20-30% tougher. Overall, a thinner structure is ALWAYS more brittle. All in all, OP is completely right: This simply isn't a professional machine.
- matthewmacleod 10y ago
  This simply isn't a professional machine. It's far from clear that this is 'simple'.
- dpark 10y ago
  > Lighter: Yes. This is a professional's priority number 2749 though. I use my laptop in a professional capacity and weight is a huge factor for me. I carry my laptop everywhere. Incremental yearly changes in weight have generally not been that impressive but in aggregate the difference is huge. Go pick up a 10-year-old laptop and you'll probably agree. > Structural engineering: It's half as thin. If you know mechanics, you'd need a material double as tough in order to make up for the loss in structural stability. I'm no mechanical engineer, but I don't believe that's correct. There are a number of factors that impact the structural stability of an item. The internal structure has a huge impact, which is why I-beams exist. It's also not as if the space saved is the result of just milling out half of the original aluminum. The actual metal case is probably the same thickness or close.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

ebbv 10y ago

I'm in the same boat. I have a 2012 rMBP and I am sticking with it instead of getting one of these new machines. They bring nothing to the table I care about. They have optimized for thinness and lightness where those should be nice bonuses on a machine focused on being a fantastic work machine for professional developers. Not a machine focused on being thin and light that developers can "make due" with.

QuantumRoar 10y ago

Apple has a lot of developers. I wonder what they think about the new MBPs. There are so many complaints from developers that I cannot believe that all Apple engineers are happy with their new choices in MBPs. I wonder if a lot of displeased Apple engineers can change the direction the Pro stuff is headed.

matthewmacleod 10y ago
Don't ever forget that you're listening to the loud echo-chamber noise of the internet, though! People who don't think there isn't much wrong with the new MBPs aren't going to make a lot of noise about that fact.
- fgandiya 10y ago
  Exactly. I work at my college's library and we lend out the top line 15" MBP complete with GPU and 16GB RAM which are almost always checked out. Most of the patrons only use Word and Safari on them anyway.
mercer 10y ago
For me the main issue is that the 4-port fully-spec'd-out version is just too expensive. If not for the price I could live with the choices. I suspect Apple developers would be able to afford the beefiest model, assuming they don't get it for free. So there's that.

endymi0n 10y ago

At their rate of taking sane stuff away in the name of "design", their 2017 MacBook Pro and the 2017 iPad Pro will be the same device. Because by now, there's honestly not so much more to lose than 3 USB-C connectors and a keyboard.

cobralibre 10y ago

I'm curious about the lack of a hardware power button. I wonder how one forces one of these new Macs to shut down when it hangs?

ap3 10y ago

What if there is no wifi ? It doesn't have an ethernet jack or at least a comm/serial port You also forgot about the vga, mouse/kb ports, also no slot for CF cards :( How am I supposed to connect to a printer with this pro machine? It has no printer port.