5 ms·

I'm intrigued by this line of thinking though - for the most part, you're not buying hardware per se, you're buying a product, which is a function of hardware a

I'm intrigued by this line of thinking though - for the most part, you're not buying hardware per se, you're buying a product, which is a function of hardware and software. As much as I'd love everything to be open and easy to tinker with and change as you see fit, just because it's a physical item doesn't mean you have any extra right to use it any differently to the way the product was intended. Obviously a tutorial online shows at least a small fraction of demand for open hardware, but as you say, the choices become limited if you care about it, probably as a result of such a small number actually caring enough to vocalise/put money where their mouths are.

shmerl 10y ago
If you mention rights, who said they have a right to dictate you, to use it only in the way it was "intended for"? Actually this line of thinking is unnatural, not the other way around. In my case I don't buy "products". I buy hardware and I prefer an ability to install other OSes on it (besides the preinstalled one), whether it's desktop or mobile computers. We are lucky PCs are actually open like that. It's the mobile hardware that is sick closed. But this isn't really about attacking rights necessarily. Most of the time they simply cut costs. To make hardware respect freedom requires some extra effort, and the likes of Qualcomm and Asus simply don't care. It's easier for them to lock it up.
- wastedhours 10y ago
  I still believe you're opting into buying the product. That's an active choice on your behalf - noone is forcing you to buy something that is created within a certain set of parameters. Expecting those parameters to be different to those of the creator just because it's a physical product is somewhat illogical to me. I fully agree, we're lucky PCs are open in that regard, I'd love hardware to be separated from software and we can do as we wish, but that's not what's being sold to us, or what the mass market they're targeting is demanding. They are creating and selling a product, not just hardware. Edit: and again, I'm not saying it's right, definitely not, and certainly not saying don't kick up a fuss and show the companies what you want, just that buying an item that makes no claims to openness and just expecting it to be open "because", is naive.
- simonh 10y ago
  To my mind they don't have a right to dictate to you what you do with it once you bought it. From then on, it's yours. Conversely, beyond consumer protection legislation you don't have any right to tell manufacturers what products they must sell and what the features of those products must be. If a manufacturer decides that the optimum solution for them is to lock down the system as they believe that's the best way to protect customers from their devices being subverted maliciously, that's for them to decide. If you don't agree, just don't buy the product.
DanBC 10y ago
I agree if we're talking about product support or warranties, but if someone accepts they're not going to get support and they're going to void the warranty I don't get why the manufacturer can decide how the product is used.
- wastedhours 10y ago
  Because with end user consumer electronics you're buying the thing the manufacturer decided to produce, and most of the time, they've decided to produce an end product to fulfill a use case, rather than just hardware. I'm sure there will be pure-play hardware companies out there in the "non-PC component" space at some point, but at present most are making end-to-end products.

shmerl 10y ago

If you mention rights, who said they have a right to dictate you, to use it only in the way it was "intended for"? Actually this line of thinking is unnatural, not the other way around. In my case I don't buy "products". I buy hardware and I prefer an ability to install other OSes on it (besides the preinstalled one), whether it's desktop or mobile computers. We are lucky PCs are actually open like that. It's the mobile hardware that is sick closed. But this isn't really about attacking rights necessarily. Most of the time they simply cut costs. To make hardware respect freedom requires some extra effort, and the likes of Qualcomm and Asus simply don't care. It's easier for them to lock it up.

wastedhours 10y ago
I still believe you're opting into buying the product. That's an active choice on your behalf - noone is forcing you to buy something that is created within a certain set of parameters. Expecting those parameters to be different to those of the creator just because it's a physical product is somewhat illogical to me. I fully agree, we're lucky PCs are open in that regard, I'd love hardware to be separated from software and we can do as we wish, but that's not what's being sold to us, or what the mass market they're targeting is demanding. They are creating and selling a product, not just hardware. Edit: and again, I'm not saying it's right, definitely not, and certainly not saying don't kick up a fuss and show the companies what you want, just that buying an item that makes no claims to openness and just expecting it to be open "because", is naive.
simonh 10y ago
To my mind they don't have a right to dictate to you what you do with it once you bought it. From then on, it's yours. Conversely, beyond consumer protection legislation you don't have any right to tell manufacturers what products they must sell and what the features of those products must be. If a manufacturer decides that the optimum solution for them is to lock down the system as they believe that's the best way to protect customers from their devices being subverted maliciously, that's for them to decide. If you don't agree, just don't buy the product.

DanBC 10y ago

I agree if we're talking about product support or warranties, but if someone accepts they're not going to get support and they're going to void the warranty I don't get why the manufacturer can decide how the product is used.

wastedhours 10y ago
Because with end user consumer electronics you're buying the thing the manufacturer decided to produce, and most of the time, they've decided to produce an end product to fulfill a use case, rather than just hardware. I'm sure there will be pure-play hardware companies out there in the "non-PC component" space at some point, but at present most are making end-to-end products.