5 ms·

" are going through the same pains "the West" experienced up to 20 years ago" 20 years? Ha ha ... No, this was a problem that started with the industrial rev

" are going through the same pains "the West" experienced up to 20 years ago" 20 years? Ha ha ... No, this was a problem that started with the industrial revolution, and policies were introduced to fix the issues shortly thereafter. 18th-century UK was probably the first bit of 'overt environmental problems', the Thames was a mess, smog everywhere ... But it was addressed long, long ago. Different strokes for different folks in different times ... but it doesn't take 'high tech' to have decent policy that addresses these issues. India has some pretty deep problems, this is only one of many symptoms.

gnipgnip 10y ago
Not true. Lakes and Rivers all over the US (and Japan) were badly polluted and frothing in the 60s.
- edblarney 10y ago
  I'm not saying they weren't! I'm saying that 'environmental consciousness' as a civic issue started in London in the early 19th century, not '20 years ago'. By the time pollution was bad from the plastic-chemical revolutions of the 1960's there was already a conscientiousness very well developed. One major difference: the pollution from coal in the industrial age was visible. From the 1950's chemical revolution - it was not. And so it wasn't evident to the average person that the pollution was 'hurting'. Much like smoking - it takes some science etc. to show it's bad.
edblarney 10y ago
"18th-century UK " I meant to say '19th century' :)
toyg 10y ago
Mate, I live in Stockport, ye? I've seen pictures from the '90s and they weren't pretty. The River Mersey was flowing red, and was literally an open-air dump. With all the effort that's gone into cleaning it up since, the real difference has been that industry around here mostly shut down because it's now cheaper to do the shitty stuff elsewhere. What's left is between Warrington and Birkinhead, and doesn't the air look shit on that side all the time, pollution checks be damned. There are old chemical companies based here that nowadays manufacture and sell only outside the EU, because Euro regulations are too stringent for them (everyone's guess, of course, is that all this "red tape" will disappear in the glorious brexit, relaunching UK manufacturing and likely painting rivers red again). These people care very little for rates of cancer and all that noise, and there is simply no way to make what they make "cleanly". England in the 80s was a polluted clusterfuck as much as anywhere, maybe not as lung-killing as when Lowry painted his grey skies (which was post-Great War, not Victorian!) but still pretty shit. You might be living in a green Southern village where people cycle in tweed, but I can assure you that up in the Northern Poorhouse "environmental protection" is always very, very low on the agenda, today as much as yesterday. If you read my parent comment again, I said "UP TO 20 years ago". As in, we had big, visible, significant problems; then industry decamped, and changes in the landscape have been significant since then. Did previous policies improve things? Sure, but the real game changer was moving the shit-making factories elsewhere: China, India, and developing countries. No amount of policies will fully protect the environment if a man's paycheck depends on not protecting it. Dude, we still run DIESEL TRAINS, for god's sake. In 2016. In what is basically a flat country.

gnipgnip 10y ago

Not true. Lakes and Rivers all over the US (and Japan) were badly polluted and frothing in the 60s.

edblarney 10y ago
I'm not saying they weren't! I'm saying that 'environmental consciousness' as a civic issue started in London in the early 19th century, not '20 years ago'. By the time pollution was bad from the plastic-chemical revolutions of the 1960's there was already a conscientiousness very well developed. One major difference: the pollution from coal in the industrial age was visible. From the 1950's chemical revolution - it was not. And so it wasn't evident to the average person that the pollution was 'hurting'. Much like smoking - it takes some science etc. to show it's bad.

edblarney 10y ago

"18th-century UK " I meant to say '19th century' :)

toyg 10y ago

Mate, I live in Stockport, ye? I've seen pictures from the '90s and they weren't pretty. The River Mersey was flowing red, and was literally an open-air dump. With all the effort that's gone into cleaning it up since, the real difference has been that industry around here mostly shut down because it's now cheaper to do the shitty stuff elsewhere. What's left is between Warrington and Birkinhead, and doesn't the air look shit on that side all the time, pollution checks be damned. There are old chemical companies based here that nowadays manufacture and sell only outside the EU, because Euro regulations are too stringent for them (everyone's guess, of course, is that all this "red tape" will disappear in the glorious brexit, relaunching UK manufacturing and likely painting rivers red again). These people care very little for rates of cancer and all that noise, and there is simply no way to make what they make "cleanly". England in the 80s was a polluted clusterfuck as much as anywhere, maybe not as lung-killing as when Lowry painted his grey skies (which was post-Great War, not Victorian!) but still pretty shit. You might be living in a green Southern village where people cycle in tweed, but I can assure you that up in the Northern Poorhouse "environmental protection" is always very, very low on the agenda, today as much as yesterday. If you read my parent comment again, I said "UP TO 20 years ago". As in, we had big, visible, significant problems; then industry decamped, and changes in the landscape have been significant since then. Did previous policies improve things? Sure, but the real game changer was moving the shit-making factories elsewhere: China, India, and developing countries. No amount of policies will fully protect the environment if a man's paycheck depends on not protecting it. Dude, we still run DIESEL TRAINS, for god's sake. In 2016. In what is basically a flat country.