6 ms·

Google Grants MapReduce License to Apache/Hadoop

54 points by cgs1019 17y ago

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
strlen 17y ago
That is "don't be evil" demonstrated. Google could have kept GFS and MapReduce strictly confidential (no paper published, merely a patent) and sue those who implemented anything similar. Microsoft had at one point used Hadoop and HBase (via the Powerset acquisition), they've also made their own MapReduce (Dryad) and Sawzall (DryadLinq) equivalents. It's admirable that Google resisted the temptation to patent-troll them (not that patent trolling has any actual benefit, it just sounds like a typical "evil big corporation" thing to do).
- nivertech 17y ago
  Dryad is not MapReduce. M/R is just a very simple case of what Dryad can do. But Dryad is not available for serious use outside Microsoft. Also Google only got implementation patent, it's only applicable to Hadoop, which is a Java-based clean room implementation of Google's M/R. Zvi
  - bad_user 17y ago
    > Dryad is not MapReduce. M/R is just a very simple case of what Dryad can do. That's irrelevant ... if it touches on the claims of the Map-Reduce patent, then it infringes. Being a company that releases stuff in the open sure is a disadvantage.
- tzs 17y ago
  If Google were to sue Microsoft (or anyone else, for that matter) over their patent, they would not be patent-trolling, by definition. Patent trolling is when some entity that does not practice the patent acquires it and uses it against others.
daniel02216 17y ago
The link is a 404 for me. Is there a mirror or another link?
lpgauth 17y ago
The message seems to have disappeared. Here's the next message in the thread: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-general/201004.mbox/browser http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-general/2010....
mark_l_watson 17y ago
I expected them to do this - good for them. As much as I tend to distrust large corporations, Google has some coolness, and I can't think of another large corporation that I distrust less than Google.
- clammer 17y ago
  I suggest you try spending money with Google, then ask for some sort of customer support. You might trust them a lot less after that.
  - sequence7 17y ago
    That's a valid point for a business, but for a user it seems like google's focus is crystal clear. The interesting thing is, I think, that they focus on their real customers more than who people perceive to be their customers. The real customer for google is the billions who use their search, that's where all their money comes from. If you're paying for google checkout, or apps for your domain or one of their other services the truth is that you contribute next to nothing to their bottom line. I'd like all their paid services to be better but I understand why fundamentally they don't look after those customers as much as the ones who really pay their bills. In short, google makes their real money from people who don't pay them, that's who they care about.
- sp332 17y ago
  The only one that's up there for me is Mozilla. The implementation of the Weave platform so far puts user privacy way above Mozilla's business interests. The dedication to open development and management is higher than Google's.
  - papachito 17y ago
    Mozilla is not a corporation, it's a non-profit foundation: http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/ http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/
    - 17y ago
qeorge 17y ago
The submission seems to have dropped the last > of the URL, causing a 404. Here it is as a tinyUrl: http://tinyurl.com/36jzc7v http://tinyurl.com/36jzc7v
- mattyb 17y ago
  And lengthened: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-general/201004.mbox/%3C121803A3-CFB9-489B-96EF-027234E55D25@apache.org%3E http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-general/2010...
helwr 17y ago
dup: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1287969 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1287969
- cgs1019 17y ago
  Ah, thanks. Can anyone point me to a reference on entering special characters in HN URLs and comments? If I had entered the URL properly, this would have been presented to me before I posted the link.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
tedunangst 17y ago
What happens if I take the hadoop code and modify it? What about a very substantial modification?
- borism 17y ago
  licenses are granted to legal entities, not some code?
juliusdavies 17y ago
I wonder if this means anyone can use MapReduce (even outside of Apache code). ON the other hand I see no mention of 'derivative works' in this section of the license. So, yeah, I'm curious if this patent license is transitive such that people creating new works based on the Apache code can always use the patent license. Apache Software License 2.0 http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html 3. Grant of Patent License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, each Contributor hereby grants to You a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable (except as stated in this section) patent license to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and otherwise transfer the Work, where such license applies only to those patent claims licensable by such Contributor that are necessarily infringed by their Contribution(s) alone or by combination of their Contribution(s) with the Work to which such Contribution(s) was submitted. If You institute patent litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a Contribution incorporated within the Work constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement, then any patent licenses granted to You under this License for that Work shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed.

54 points by cgs1019 17y ago

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

That is "don't be evil" demonstrated. Google could have kept GFS and MapReduce strictly confidential (no paper published, merely a patent) and sue those who implemented anything similar. Microsoft had at one point used Hadoop and HBase (via the Powerset acquisition), they've also made their own MapReduce (Dryad) and Sawzall (DryadLinq) equivalents. It's admirable that Google resisted the temptation to patent-troll them (not that patent trolling has any actual benefit, it just sounds like a typical "evil big corporation" thing to do).

nivertech 17y ago
Dryad is not MapReduce. M/R is just a very simple case of what Dryad can do. But Dryad is not available for serious use outside Microsoft. Also Google only got implementation patent, it's only applicable to Hadoop, which is a Java-based clean room implementation of Google's M/R. Zvi
- bad_user 17y ago
  > Dryad is not MapReduce. M/R is just a very simple case of what Dryad can do. That's irrelevant ... if it touches on the claims of the Map-Reduce patent, then it infringes. Being a company that releases stuff in the open sure is a disadvantage.
tzs 17y ago
If Google were to sue Microsoft (or anyone else, for that matter) over their patent, they would not be patent-trolling, by definition. Patent trolling is when some entity that does not practice the patent acquires it and uses it against others.

daniel02216 17y ago

The link is a 404 for me. Is there a mirror or another link?

lpgauth 17y ago

The message seems to have disappeared. Here's the next message in the thread: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-general/201004.mbox/browser http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-general/2010....

mark_l_watson 17y ago

I expected them to do this - good for them. As much as I tend to distrust large corporations, Google has some coolness, and I can't think of another large corporation that I distrust less than Google.

clammer 17y ago
I suggest you try spending money with Google, then ask for some sort of customer support. You might trust them a lot less after that.
- sequence7 17y ago
  That's a valid point for a business, but for a user it seems like google's focus is crystal clear. The interesting thing is, I think, that they focus on their real customers more than who people perceive to be their customers. The real customer for google is the billions who use their search, that's where all their money comes from. If you're paying for google checkout, or apps for your domain or one of their other services the truth is that you contribute next to nothing to their bottom line. I'd like all their paid services to be better but I understand why fundamentally they don't look after those customers as much as the ones who really pay their bills. In short, google makes their real money from people who don't pay them, that's who they care about.
sp332 17y ago
The only one that's up there for me is Mozilla. The implementation of the Weave platform so far puts user privacy way above Mozilla's business interests. The dedication to open development and management is higher than Google's.
- papachito 17y ago
  Mozilla is not a corporation, it's a non-profit foundation: http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/ http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/
  - 17y ago

qeorge 17y ago

The submission seems to have dropped the last > of the URL, causing a 404. Here it is as a tinyUrl: http://tinyurl.com/36jzc7v http://tinyurl.com/36jzc7v

mattyb 17y ago
And lengthened: http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-general/201004.mbox/%3C121803A3-CFB9-489B-96EF-027234E55D25@apache.org%3E http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hadoop-general/2010...

helwr 17y ago

dup: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1287969 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1287969

cgs1019 17y ago
Ah, thanks. Can anyone point me to a reference on entering special characters in HN URLs and comments? If I had entered the URL properly, this would have been presented to me before I posted the link.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]

tedunangst 17y ago

What happens if I take the hadoop code and modify it? What about a very substantial modification?

borism 17y ago
licenses are granted to legal entities, not some code?

juliusdavies 17y ago

I wonder if this means anyone can use MapReduce (even outside of Apache code). ON the other hand I see no mention of 'derivative works' in this section of the license. So, yeah, I'm curious if this patent license is transitive such that people creating new works based on the Apache code can always use the patent license. Apache Software License 2.0 http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0.html 3. Grant of Patent License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, each Contributor hereby grants to You a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable (except as stated in this section) patent license to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and otherwise transfer the Work, where such license applies only to those patent claims licensable by such Contributor that are necessarily infringed by their Contribution(s) alone or by combination of their Contribution(s) with the Work to which such Contribution(s) was submitted. If You institute patent litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a Contribution incorporated within the Work constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement, then any patent licenses granted to You under this License for that Work shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed.