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The polar sentiments and social divide in America that Trump took advantage of will not go away after the election. I really don't want them to be swept under t

by phmagic 10y ago

The polar sentiments and social divide in America that Trump took advantage of will not go away after the election. I really don't want them to be swept under the rug, but I worry about the civil unrest if we continue to debate each other in such barbaric ways.

grzm 10y ago
"in such barbaric ways." This is the crux of it, I think. We need to push back on the vitriol by not letting it suck us in. Over the past couple of weeks there's been a few pockets of discussion on approaches to doing this in a more civil manner. - Crocker's Rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12881288 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12881288 - Principle of Charity: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12774600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12774600 - Rapaport's Rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12774692 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12774692
wernercd 10y ago
> that Trump took advantage You mean the division that was caused by the current administration? The divide in this country was here before the election... it's why the "alternative" candidates (Trump and Bern) were on track to win (if not for DNC shenanigans). People are sick of politics as normal. Those politics are driving the wedge between groups, causing cops to be ambushed and are destroying this country/world from the inside out.
- grzm 10y ago
  It's clear you have strong opinions about this, which indicates you care. That's great. I agree with you that the Trump comment was unnecessary, but agree with the sentiment of the rest. I chose to ignore that small part of the statement to focus on the part we agree on. The manner in which you're expressing those opinions sound like you're trying to call the gp out rather than try to figure a constructive way forward. Do you disagree? Do you think there is a way forward? If so, what is your method? Does your comment support that method? One thing you agree with the gp on is that a wedge is being driven, and it sounds like you also believe that's a bad thing. How can we work together to mend that?
  - wernercd 10y ago
    It's hard to say how we get past the polarization that is dividing everyone. Past the partisan politics. It's hard to arrive at a constructive conversation for complex topics within the span of a text message - or a few paragraphs. Both sides are pulled further left/right and people spend more time in echo chambers where they unfriend/get unfriended by those with different opinions. I'm not sure how you get past these hurdles in a "text messaging"/facebook type environment. "Trump takes advantage" of the divide caused by the "current administration". I try not to be vitriolic but its hard not to be angry at those in power for letting it get this bad. And by "those in power", I do include BOTH sides.
    - grzm 10y ago
      I completely agree. I'm amazed at how infuriated I can find myself sometimes. One advantage of the text messaging/Facebook-type environment is that it's async. We have the opportunity to step back, take a breath, re-read what we wrote before we press send. I think I end up deleting at least a third of the comments I start to write because I realize I haven't figured out ways to express something properly. Or I'll blanket it in so many qualifiers to try to make sure I'm not misunderstood that the actual content is hard to parse out. And just text is a difficult, low-bandwidth medium because we don't get to see any of the cues associated with body language or tone. But hopefully I'll get better with practice. And I don't want to stop trying, because I think it's really important for us to figure this out. Thanks for taking the time to respond. It gives me hope that we'll be able to get through this.
- phmagic 10y ago
  I agree with you that the wedge was there before Trump arrived. The original comment might have insinuated that Trump was the primary cause of the divide. My intention was to ask: where do we go from here?

by phmagic 10y ago

grzm 10y ago

"in such barbaric ways." This is the crux of it, I think. We need to push back on the vitriol by not letting it suck us in. Over the past couple of weeks there's been a few pockets of discussion on approaches to doing this in a more civil manner. - Crocker's Rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12881288 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12881288 - Principle of Charity: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12774600 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12774600 - Rapaport's Rules: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12774692 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12774692

wernercd 10y ago

> that Trump took advantage You mean the division that was caused by the current administration? The divide in this country was here before the election... it's why the "alternative" candidates (Trump and Bern) were on track to win (if not for DNC shenanigans). People are sick of politics as normal. Those politics are driving the wedge between groups, causing cops to be ambushed and are destroying this country/world from the inside out.

grzm 10y ago
It's clear you have strong opinions about this, which indicates you care. That's great. I agree with you that the Trump comment was unnecessary, but agree with the sentiment of the rest. I chose to ignore that small part of the statement to focus on the part we agree on. The manner in which you're expressing those opinions sound like you're trying to call the gp out rather than try to figure a constructive way forward. Do you disagree? Do you think there is a way forward? If so, what is your method? Does your comment support that method? One thing you agree with the gp on is that a wedge is being driven, and it sounds like you also believe that's a bad thing. How can we work together to mend that?
- wernercd 10y ago
  It's hard to say how we get past the polarization that is dividing everyone. Past the partisan politics. It's hard to arrive at a constructive conversation for complex topics within the span of a text message - or a few paragraphs. Both sides are pulled further left/right and people spend more time in echo chambers where they unfriend/get unfriended by those with different opinions. I'm not sure how you get past these hurdles in a "text messaging"/facebook type environment. "Trump takes advantage" of the divide caused by the "current administration". I try not to be vitriolic but its hard not to be angry at those in power for letting it get this bad. And by "those in power", I do include BOTH sides.
  - grzm 10y ago
    I completely agree. I'm amazed at how infuriated I can find myself sometimes. One advantage of the text messaging/Facebook-type environment is that it's async. We have the opportunity to step back, take a breath, re-read what we wrote before we press send. I think I end up deleting at least a third of the comments I start to write because I realize I haven't figured out ways to express something properly. Or I'll blanket it in so many qualifiers to try to make sure I'm not misunderstood that the actual content is hard to parse out. And just text is a difficult, low-bandwidth medium because we don't get to see any of the cues associated with body language or tone. But hopefully I'll get better with practice. And I don't want to stop trying, because I think it's really important for us to figure this out. Thanks for taking the time to respond. It gives me hope that we'll be able to get through this.
phmagic 10y ago
I agree with you that the wedge was there before Trump arrived. The original comment might have insinuated that Trump was the primary cause of the divide. My intention was to ask: where do we go from here?