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Let's look at the single data point we have where this sort of system is in place - China. It's approximately as wide as the U.S. and it has a single timezone

by imron 10y ago

Let's look at the single data point we have where this sort of system is in place - China. It's approximately as wide as the U.S. and it has a single timezone - Beijing time. As you can imagine, if you are living in Beijing, Beijing time works pretty well. It also works pretty well for everywhere else on the east coast. It's not so bad in the middle either. For the people living in Urumqi, or even further west such as Kashgar (or actually pretty much anyone in Xinjiang province) it's a mess. Everything is offset a couple of hours and there is a kind of unofficial 'xinjiang time' that you have to convert to and from in your head depending sometimes on the ethnicity of the person. It's not a good idea. http://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/11/china-only-has-one-time-zone-and-thats-a-problem/281136/ http://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/11/china-only-...

BurningFrog 10y ago
Yeah, but do the people of rural China really have a lot of internet interactions with the people on the coast? This cause is driven by our increasing interactions with people in other time zones, and the problem will keep getting bigger as the world gets smaller. Xinjiang is probably a bit behind that curve, but it will happen there too.
- imron 10y ago
  Urumqi is not rural, it's the capital city of Xinjiang. I agree though that they're likely behind the Internet curve compared to say Silicon Valley, but surely screwing up the days of tens of millions of people to make life slightly more convenient for people who have a lot of Internet interactions doesn't really make much sense. For those people, surely they could just adopt a single timezone as a frame of reference?
  - BurningFrog 10y ago
    Yeah, it probably doesn't make sense today, but as the Urumqians, like the rest of us have more and more of their interactions with people in other places, it will make more sense each year. I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're absolutely right about the adoption. Assuming I'm right and this makes sense, the people who need it the most will start using it between them, more and more people will join them, and when the official world switches over, it will be a formal acceptance of how things already work. If I'm right.
    - imron 10y ago
      Who knows, maybe Internet time will become a thing after all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time
tom_mellior 10y ago
> Everything is offset a couple of hours So? The only examples the article gives are "sometimes it's light at midnight" and "sometimes the sun doesn't come up until 10am", both of which are absolutely normal for lots of people living in, say, not-entirely-southern Scandinavia. > and there is a kind of unofficial 'xinjiang time' that you have to convert to and from in your head So the problem is not the single time zone, the problem stems from having two time zones for (somewhat understandable, but still inconvenient) political reasons.
- imron 10y ago
  > So the problem is not the single time zone, the problem stems from having two time zones for (somewhat understandable, but still inconvenient) political reasons. So once again ask yourself, why do two timezones exist when there is already one official one that everybody should use? Timezones won't go away just because governments will it and then it becomes even more of a mess.
lmm 10y ago
Sounds like it's a problem in Urumqi precisely because there are people who use a different timezone (and because the question of which to use is politicized). If everyone used Beijing time, wouldn't all the problems in that article go away? (I've only been to Urumqi once, but I found the being in the same timezone as the rest of China very convenient, particularly in contrast to earlier on the same trip when we arrived in Kiev 2 hours earlier than we'd expected and had to scramble to pack up our stuff and leave the train)
sdm 10y ago
China isn't really an example of what the article is talking about. In China, everything runs on Beijing time. Everyone in Western China is expected to shift their day to meet up with Beijing time. If they followed the FA the people in Urumqi would not shift their day, instead would use the appropriate local hours. I.e., right now they operate say 9-17, if they followed the article they would operate say 13-21.

by imron 10y ago

BurningFrog 10y ago

Yeah, but do the people of rural China really have a lot of internet interactions with the people on the coast? This cause is driven by our increasing interactions with people in other time zones, and the problem will keep getting bigger as the world gets smaller. Xinjiang is probably a bit behind that curve, but it will happen there too.

imron 10y ago
Urumqi is not rural, it's the capital city of Xinjiang. I agree though that they're likely behind the Internet curve compared to say Silicon Valley, but surely screwing up the days of tens of millions of people to make life slightly more convenient for people who have a lot of Internet interactions doesn't really make much sense. For those people, surely they could just adopt a single timezone as a frame of reference?
- BurningFrog 10y ago
  Yeah, it probably doesn't make sense today, but as the Urumqians, like the rest of us have more and more of their interactions with people in other places, it will make more sense each year. I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're absolutely right about the adoption. Assuming I'm right and this makes sense, the people who need it the most will start using it between them, more and more people will join them, and when the official world switches over, it will be a formal acceptance of how things already work. If I'm right.
  - imron 10y ago
    Who knows, maybe Internet time will become a thing after all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time

tom_mellior 10y ago

> Everything is offset a couple of hours So? The only examples the article gives are "sometimes it's light at midnight" and "sometimes the sun doesn't come up until 10am", both of which are absolutely normal for lots of people living in, say, not-entirely-southern Scandinavia. > and there is a kind of unofficial 'xinjiang time' that you have to convert to and from in your head So the problem is not the single time zone, the problem stems from having two time zones for (somewhat understandable, but still inconvenient) political reasons.

imron 10y ago
> So the problem is not the single time zone, the problem stems from having two time zones for (somewhat understandable, but still inconvenient) political reasons. So once again ask yourself, why do two timezones exist when there is already one official one that everybody should use? Timezones won't go away just because governments will it and then it becomes even more of a mess.

lmm 10y ago

Sounds like it's a problem in Urumqi precisely because there are people who use a different timezone (and because the question of which to use is politicized). If everyone used Beijing time, wouldn't all the problems in that article go away? (I've only been to Urumqi once, but I found the being in the same timezone as the rest of China very convenient, particularly in contrast to earlier on the same trip when we arrived in Kiev 2 hours earlier than we'd expected and had to scramble to pack up our stuff and leave the train)

sdm 10y ago

China isn't really an example of what the article is talking about. In China, everything runs on Beijing time. Everyone in Western China is expected to shift their day to meet up with Beijing time. If they followed the FA the people in Urumqi would not shift their day, instead would use the appropriate local hours. I.e., right now they operate say 9-17, if they followed the article they would operate say 13-21.