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Just finished watching the film Before The Flood and the representative from India's Centre For Science and Environment really frustrated and upset me. She was
by nodesocket 10y ago
Just finished watching the film Before The Flood and the representative from India's Centre For Science and Environment really frustrated and upset me. She was blaming US consumption as the source of the problem and how we don't practice what we preach. Our air is not poisonous, we don't have 300 million citizens without power living in poverty. The US has some of the best and greatest companies working on energy (see Tesla) and it is time India stop blaming the US and start putting in the work on their own.
See the following short clip from the film:
https://youtu.be/90CkXVF-Q8M?t=36m2s https://youtu.be/90CkXVF-Q8M?t=36m2s
- legolas2412 10y agoEven on absolute levels, India's pollution is a fraction of US. US also still gets 60% electricity from fossil fuels. It is time US fixes their science and education when a major political candidate and half of their population are climate change deniers. Oh, and they are the most polluting in the world, even in per capita numbers. PM2.5 and PM10 corruption are dangerous only for people in the region and are not responsible for global warming, which affects everyone. In essence, India is killing its own people and US is killing everyone.
- CydeWeys 10y ago> Even on absolute levels, India's pollution is a fraction of US. I don't think this is true for particulate pollution. You may only be talking about carbon dioxide. Also, "Somewhere else is worse" isn't a good defense, especially when it may not even be true; it's just deflection. India has a real problem here with air pollution, and pointing fingers at other nations won't fix it.
- legolas2412 10y agoNo denying there is a problem and that we should work on a solution, it is just getting media attention now. Politicians now are under public pressure to fix it. The person I replied to was saying that India's PM2.5 pollution is equatable to CO2 pollution done by the US. Which is really not true, plus he saw that opinion in a documentary about climate change. Which would be a valid opinion.
- rm2889 10y agoCarbon footprint and particulate matter are two different issues. The US has an enormous carbon footprint, but the air quality in the US is much better than India's. This also includes densely populated places like Manhattan. Increase in PM2.5, PM10, NO2 and SO2 directly affects and damages the lungs of healthy individuals. Yes the US has a carbon footprint problem, and yes they're atleast trying to solve it. But their citizens aren't choking. People in New Delhi are. Stop trying to conflate the two issues. Long term climate change != particulate matter in the air we breathe, though they're both important.
- legolas2412 10y agoI didn't conflate the issues, he equated them. In my opinion, particulate matter is a problem that will be solved with a small amount of effort. And now in India it will be, we had similar scare in 1998 and Delhi became the first city in the world to convert entire public transportation plus all the for-hire auto-rickshaws to CNG. On the other hand, an entire political party in USA denies climate change is even real. Plus, it's not a problem that will be fixed at all, we can merely contain it's effects.
- nodesocket 10y agoFact check. Total US CO2 emissions as of 2014 was 5.3 million, India's was 2.3 million. That's not a huge difference. Also, China produces twice the amount of CO2 as the US [see 1]. India has 700M people who use cow dung as their source of fire. Once India progresses in terms of fuels they will overtake the US and potentially China. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di...
- edblarney 10y agoCO2 does not directl affects people's health - and so it's a different matter entirely. Sulphates, DDT, particulates and other toxins represent immediate health hazards that we all need to work on, some more than others.
- ignoramous 10y agoSince when is any unit of '3 million' not a huge difference?
- victornomad 10y agoSo basically you are saying that the US emissions are more than 2x India's. Taking into account that India has 3x the population of the US then it means that US emissions are 6 times bigger than India in terms of population <sarcasm>Everything is awesomeeee</sarcasm>
- refurb 10y ago
- imjustsaying 10y ago"climate change deniers" What does that mean and how is it relevant? CO2 is not causing the smog and elevated PM 2.5/10 levels in Delhi.
- legolas2412 10y agoAhh but the smog problem can be fixed. Our politicians are just not motivated to solve it. Global warming on the other hand. CO2 has ruined the planet permanently.
- guscost 10y agoI downvoted your other comment, because as someone who doesn't often agree with mainstream environmentalism, I've been called a "problem" or a "denier" or whatever many times in the past, usually by people who seem to think that I don't understand or care to learn some indisputable truth. I'm constantly seeking out information about this and other science from all manner of sources, and constantly trying to re-evaluate my beliefs and stay rational. You call for America to "fix education" but your own tone is overwhelmingly condescending. You must realize that rhetoric like yours alienates precisely those who want to hear new perspectives. And then not an hour later, you imply that there would be no point in trying to "educate" people like myself because it is too late and the planet is now ruined. Go figure. Just curious, what is your opinion on nuclear fission as a large-scale energy source?
- LargeCompanies 10y agoDo you not know that in these circles you must believe in.. 1. Climate change 2. Vote for Clinton It's America and Silly Valley says you must think like they do otherwise your a deplorable! Please come back when you have learned how to be a good silly valley robot! It's America after all...
- legolas2412 10y agoWell, with all the scientific knowledge and education you can get in USA, you guys still believe that GMO are harmful (while they can solve world hunger), have tons of anti-vaccers, flat-earthers, young earth creationist and climate change deniers. You are welcome to question the current wisdom, but to take a non sensical position not supported by any scientific reasoning is not seeking out information. Nuclear is the cleanest energy as per records, and causes far less deaths/cancer than coal etc. However, I don't expect a country like India to implement all the precautions and take care of maintenance, when even Japan didn't do due procedures. I would take wind and solar over any other form of energy.
- revelation 10y agoUnchecked smog will kill people earlier than a mere rise in temperatures by what, 3°C? The slope isn't nearly the same.
- legolas2412 10y agoUnchecked smog will be fixed with enough political incentive. Unlike global warming, It's a problem that can be fixed in a year
- cb18 10y ago>US is killing everyone How?
- legolas2412 10y agoGLOBAL WARMING is permanent.
- edblarney 10y agoThen build Nuclear plants immediately. The French built 1960's style reactors and have a perfect safety record, 85% of electricity comes from Nuclear. With i) modern designs and ii) re-investment in the tech, which hasn't seen advancement in 20 years, we'd solve the problem quickly. Fukishima is avoidable, and Chenobyl ... was insanity, not even really a 'nuclear accident' (they were running reactors out in the open, without any containment or safety measures - like making sarin gas on a campfire). Obviously it comes along with other complexities and challenges, but most of them - even long term storage of used fuel - can be addressed. There's enough known Uranium deposits to power us for the next few hundred years - and that's even when we have not been looking for more deposits for 40 years. Even without any 'new ideas' - we could be CO2 free within 10 years. The entire world. We could even build CO2 'scrubbers' to pull CO2 out of the air. Nuclear reactors are not actually as complicated as they seem, they are actually quite basic. We have the solution in front of its, it just takes the political will, and intelligent information campaigns.
- legolas2412 10y agoI agree
- rdsubhas 10y agoWhat's the point of PM2.5, PM10, per-capita emission and so on if you can't live in a city with your kids anymore? No offense to you, but I think all those "experts" arguing on TV about this should just go and live in Delhi for a week.
- riteshkpr 10y ago"representative from India's Centre For Science and Environment really frustrated and upset me" -> please don't be upset over what one individual has to say "how we don't practice what we preach" -> that's true for every country US, India and other countries "Our air is not poisonous" -> really!!?? "we don't have 300 million citizens without power living in poverty" -> that's great. why are you comparing with a country that does have that many people below poverty? "India stop blaming the US and start putting in the work on their own" -> true.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- muad 10y agoGoogle Porter Ranch.
- mturmon 10y agoWithout supplying context, this is not helpful. (I work in a lab that analyzed the magnitude of the Aliso Canyon leak.)
- muad 10y agoI have heard mixed information on the scale of the leak. Some sources equated it to Deepwater Horizon. What were your findings?
- mturmon 10y agoMy viewpoint is just that saying "Google x" with no rationale or point is not helpful to a conversation. I have no independent desire to expound on the leak myself. I noticed your user tag is green and wanted to offer an explanation of downvotes you might get.
- muad 10y agoThen aren't you just saying "Google x" with more words.
- L_Rahman 10y agoThere's a difference between CO2 emissions which are globally distributed and air pollution which is more locally distributed. The Indian representative blames US consumption for global CO2 emissions not for the air pollution levels of Delhi's air.