7 ms·

Employees are faster and more creative when solving other people's problems

147 points by mkagenius 10y ago

adamio 10y ago
Most of the article is copied from this http://www.danpink.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/FLIP-Manifesto.pdf http://www.danpink.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/FLIP-Manif...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Zaephyr 10y ago
  Well, he is the author of both. Your link is a more in depth version of his position. Thx!
rauljara 10y ago
I've witnessed this phenomenon at work when asking other people for help with problems. My coworkers come up with more creative solutions than I did, much faster. The only problem is that when I'm asking for help with stuff, it tends to be tricky stuff with lots of edge cases. My coworkers' solutions tend to not actually work... Which is not to say that there isn't value in asking them. Sometimes their solutions that don't work can be modified into something that does; or their crazy non-solutions can spark some inspiration on my end. My theory as to what's going on here is that when you are responsible for the solution, you spend a lot of time thinking about what could go wrong, so your thinking gets constrained. When you are solving a problem for someone else, you're thinking is much freer, because frankly you don't give a damn. You are much more likely to come up with a unique, novel solution. You are also much more likely to deliver a solution that is actually disastrous. My point being: I think there's room for both associated and disassociated thinking. This article seems to think because there was one series of studies showing some benefits of disassociated thinking that disassociated thinking is just straight up better.
- buzzybee 10y ago
  This is a really good point and it shows how good collaborations need a "lead with strength" attitude and why rubberducking works - when you think the problem is not actually that hard and you can clearly describe it, then you can safely delegate its solution. But the thorniest stuff has to stay under your supervision or it won't get done right - usually. But there are just as many "easy problems with simple solutions that you overthink", and then you need a rubberduck conversation to work out why it's easy.
- phkahler 10y ago
  I've seen this as well. Other peoples problems offer an escape from my own. There isn't any pressure to solve them so there is definitely a different feel to them. There is also choice, if I hear about 5 other peoples problems, I may have insight into one or two but not the others and I can devote my spare cycles to the promising ones. One approach for getting your own work done may be to think of your future self. That's who you're doing it for. This also gives less immediacy to the problem in addition to distance. "Older me is going to really appreciate this 3 months from now."
  - MereInterest 10y ago
    It also gives you the advantage of putting yourself in a different mindset. For that, I usually use "3 AM me" as the comparison. Any API that is usable by fully-conscious daytime me, but is prone to errors by "3 AM me" is one that needs to be improved. If an API can be used by "3 AM me", along with all the stress and pressure that led to late-night coding, then it is sufficient.
  - Angostura 10y ago
    Not only is there less pressure, but there is also the immediate pressure of gratitude from your peers, it's great to be able to help someone out and get a heartfelt thankyou. They are also often quite interesting and let you learn something about a new domain. And suddenly I understand why I keep volunteering to help on gnarly little projects that are peripheral to my main job - even though I'm extraordinarily busy.
- 10y ago
heisenbit 10y ago
A rationale approach to problem solving is usually the best. Others have less baggage and fewer emotions invested so they certainly can help. Before organizing a whole enterprise around this however it is worth considering how much of our work actually fits into the solvable problem category.
cool-RR 10y ago
Hmm, I don't think that the rope would hold up to being cut lengthwise.
- rdlecler1 10y ago
  It depends on the thickness and material of the rope.
  - quantumhobbit 10y ago
    Most ropes are twisted or braided. Cutting lengthwise would cut all of the threads completely destroying the rope. You could maybe unbraid the rope and deconstruct carefully into component threads and reconstruct into two ropes, Banak-Tarski(spell?) style. But that would be quite involved.
- tigershark 10y ago
  Why not? Big ropes are made with smaller fibres entwined. It's not that difficult to obtain two smaller ropes from a bigger one provided that it is big enough.
- regularfry 10y ago
  He doesn't say "cut", he says "split". A twisted rope can be split into two parts without damaging either.
  - Terretta 10y ago
    Er, no. You're both substituting in the word from your mental model. "Yet he divides the rope in half, ties the two parts together..."
    - regularfry 10y ago
      Er, no. From the article: > Which leads to one final question: how exactly did the prisoner with the insufficiently long rope manage to escape? The answer: he split the rope lengthwise, tied the two halves together and shimmied to freedom.
BjoernKW 10y ago
I absolutely agree with the premise that solving somebody else's problem or getting an outside opinion is highly beneficial because it allows you to approach a problem with a beginner's mind. That rope example though clearly shows a caveat with that approach. In an ideal, abstract world that solution would work. However, in the real world this solution obviously doesn't work because you can't cut a rope lengthwise without the rope coming undone.
libeclipse 10y ago
I noticed a similar phenomenon in my days at school. When solving problems on my own I was reasonably successful, but in class when I found out - or someone mentioned - that a particular problem was extremely difficult and/or no one had managed to do, I do exceptionally well in it. As for an explanation to this, I have no idea. It maybe has something to do with the fact that if I fail at the difficult problem then a lot of people have seen me fail at it, but that's just guesswork.
petra 10y ago
They say that solving someone else's problem helps you think abstractly . But why do you have to use tricks to think abstractly ? why not just do so on purpose ? intentionally ?
- mkagenius 10y ago
  Its just the way our mind works, it gets kind of tired doing the task you _have_ to do. That's why people like doing "side projects". It gives them a kick out of thinking in new ways.
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  Because our brains are rather busted hardware for which abstract thought is a last-minute feature.
- grzm 10y ago
  The mind isn't as rational or straightforward as we would perhaps prefer. You can look at phenomena like split-brain studies to see just how bizarre it can be.[0] I'm not saying the split-brain stuff is comparable or useful in this particular situation. It's just the first concrete example of surprising, non-intuitive mind behavior I thought of. Figuring out what tricks work can help us leverage these behaviors in ways that are useful. And maybe we'll learn how to get the benefits in a more direct manner, intentionally. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain
pessimizer 10y ago
This seems like one of those marginal results that the experimenter planned to find before starting the experiment that won't replicate. Also, cutting a rope in half probably won't work, and one man's creative drawings and innovative gifts are another man's silly drawings and stupid gifts. Did we discover that people are more likely to try to sell solutions that probably won't work if they know that they won't be responsible for actually carrying them out?
- Retra 10y ago
  I had the same conclusion reading about the alien story part. If I have to write a story about an alien, I'm going to be thinking about what it's motivations and experiences are -- distinctly human things -- but if I have to describe an alien for someone else to write about, I'll have no trouble spewing out a stream of self-contradictory, unrelatable junk. So I'm left wondering why anyone would think the second is more "creative" than the first, given that the first was designed to solve problems and the second to create them. I wouldn't think that's the kind of creativity you'd want to measure and optimize for.
- alexpetralia 10y ago
  This is exactly how I felt when reading this! A reasonable hypothesis followed by some weak and vague experiments (how do you measure the creativity of drawings?). I'm sure many would accept the hypothesis alone (given some reasonable-sounding justification) without ever looking to see if the experiments truly validate the hypothesis. What bias is this called again? It's not Texas Sharpshooter is it? Maybe just poor science? Again, this is not to say the effect does not exist (I personally believe it does) - just that the conclusion does not follow from the evidence.
- syllogism 10y ago
  Had exactly the same reaction! Nobody should be buying an argument on this sort of basis anymore. The business of selling us some truthy conclusion and thin social psych evidence in favour should be dead.
known 10y ago
No intrinsic motivation. http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/inmotiv.htm http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/inmotiv.htm
- scribu 10y ago
  That's an interesting article you linked to, but how is motivation (intrinsic or otherwise) relevant to the topic of problem solving?
pavlov 10y ago
Isn't this essentially why consulting firms exist?
hprotagonist 10y ago
This is deeply unsurprising. If you can put aside your ego head game, I find that I can get a LOT more done.
nichochar 10y ago
I discovered this as a trick when I was a teenager. I realized that when the guy ahead of me in Math class asked me to explain something, even if I wasn't sure my ego kicked in and my brain automatically went in overdrive to try and help him solve the problem, or perform an explanation. I actually now use this trick: when I am blocked on a hard problem, or I find myself losing motivation, I imagine someone I would want to impress asking me the exact question, and spend 10s visualizing the scenario. It works!
js8 10y ago
I love to solve other people's problems! You can only gain: - If you succeed, they will be thankful. - If you fail, well, it's not your problem. Also, you can let them do the obvious/boring stuff, like bureaucracy.
bitL 10y ago
Remote work is dead :(
CoryG89 10y ago
I don't know if I am more creative when helping my co-workers with their problems, but strangely I do feel more motivated to find a solution when it is for someone else's work. Weird.
agumonkey 10y ago
It's a source my procrastination, I'm much more motivated to reflect on other's issue rather than my own. I even consider this a psychological issue.
ryanmarsh 10y ago
My job is to help my clients get better at making software. I've done this with great success, but I couldn't ship something on my own if my life depended on it.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Terr_ 10y ago
I think it's partly about risk/anxiety/blame. If it's not my problem, I'm not preoccupied with the emotional component.
diegoperini 10y ago
We use our UX designers as rubber ducks just for that, it usually helps more than anticipated.
atemerev 10y ago
Observed it myself. While at work, I designed sophisticated ops / workflow automation systems, with continuous integration, Docker, test reporting and whatsnot. For my own development? Nah, too much work, I'll do it manually (and I happily wasted huge amounts of accumulated time). Irrational, but true.
mattkrause 10y ago
Here's a link to the original paper: http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/FacultyAndResearch/AcademicAreas/Marketing/-/media/Files/Programs-and-Areas/Marketing/papers/PolmanEmichPSPB.pdf http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/FacultyAndResearch/AcademicAre...
Can_Not 10y ago
This is reality interesting and reminds me of a real life anecdote. Imagine a customer who has a small trivial request where the correct response was "no, we won't do that and you will not need it" but without a manager's permission, the sales guy and an engineer stopped working on their mission critical projects to snipe in this tiny request in a non reusable way. It was already extremely low benefit to high cost (labor + opportunity cost). Management finds out half a lost day's work later and is really pissed off.
itsobvious 10y ago
i know many IT guys who turn this on its head

147 points by mkagenius 10y ago

Most of the article is copied from this http://www.danpink.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/FLIP-Manifesto.pdf http://www.danpink.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/FLIP-Manif...

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Zaephyr 10y ago
Well, he is the author of both. Your link is a more in depth version of his position. Thx!

rauljara 10y ago

I've witnessed this phenomenon at work when asking other people for help with problems. My coworkers come up with more creative solutions than I did, much faster. The only problem is that when I'm asking for help with stuff, it tends to be tricky stuff with lots of edge cases. My coworkers' solutions tend to not actually work... Which is not to say that there isn't value in asking them. Sometimes their solutions that don't work can be modified into something that does; or their crazy non-solutions can spark some inspiration on my end. My theory as to what's going on here is that when you are responsible for the solution, you spend a lot of time thinking about what could go wrong, so your thinking gets constrained. When you are solving a problem for someone else, you're thinking is much freer, because frankly you don't give a damn. You are much more likely to come up with a unique, novel solution. You are also much more likely to deliver a solution that is actually disastrous. My point being: I think there's room for both associated and disassociated thinking. This article seems to think because there was one series of studies showing some benefits of disassociated thinking that disassociated thinking is just straight up better.

buzzybee 10y ago
This is a really good point and it shows how good collaborations need a "lead with strength" attitude and why rubberducking works - when you think the problem is not actually that hard and you can clearly describe it, then you can safely delegate its solution. But the thorniest stuff has to stay under your supervision or it won't get done right - usually. But there are just as many "easy problems with simple solutions that you overthink", and then you need a rubberduck conversation to work out why it's easy.
phkahler 10y ago
I've seen this as well. Other peoples problems offer an escape from my own. There isn't any pressure to solve them so there is definitely a different feel to them. There is also choice, if I hear about 5 other peoples problems, I may have insight into one or two but not the others and I can devote my spare cycles to the promising ones. One approach for getting your own work done may be to think of your future self. That's who you're doing it for. This also gives less immediacy to the problem in addition to distance. "Older me is going to really appreciate this 3 months from now."
- MereInterest 10y ago
  It also gives you the advantage of putting yourself in a different mindset. For that, I usually use "3 AM me" as the comparison. Any API that is usable by fully-conscious daytime me, but is prone to errors by "3 AM me" is one that needs to be improved. If an API can be used by "3 AM me", along with all the stress and pressure that led to late-night coding, then it is sufficient.
- Angostura 10y ago
  Not only is there less pressure, but there is also the immediate pressure of gratitude from your peers, it's great to be able to help someone out and get a heartfelt thankyou. They are also often quite interesting and let you learn something about a new domain. And suddenly I understand why I keep volunteering to help on gnarly little projects that are peripheral to my main job - even though I'm extraordinarily busy.
10y ago

heisenbit 10y ago

A rationale approach to problem solving is usually the best. Others have less baggage and fewer emotions invested so they certainly can help. Before organizing a whole enterprise around this however it is worth considering how much of our work actually fits into the solvable problem category.

cool-RR 10y ago

Hmm, I don't think that the rope would hold up to being cut lengthwise.

rdlecler1 10y ago
It depends on the thickness and material of the rope.
- quantumhobbit 10y ago
  Most ropes are twisted or braided. Cutting lengthwise would cut all of the threads completely destroying the rope. You could maybe unbraid the rope and deconstruct carefully into component threads and reconstruct into two ropes, Banak-Tarski(spell?) style. But that would be quite involved.
tigershark 10y ago
Why not? Big ropes are made with smaller fibres entwined. It's not that difficult to obtain two smaller ropes from a bigger one provided that it is big enough.
regularfry 10y ago
He doesn't say "cut", he says "split". A twisted rope can be split into two parts without damaging either.
- Terretta 10y ago
  Er, no. You're both substituting in the word from your mental model. "Yet he divides the rope in half, ties the two parts together..."
  - regularfry 10y ago
    Er, no. From the article: > Which leads to one final question: how exactly did the prisoner with the insufficiently long rope manage to escape? The answer: he split the rope lengthwise, tied the two halves together and shimmied to freedom.

BjoernKW 10y ago

I absolutely agree with the premise that solving somebody else's problem or getting an outside opinion is highly beneficial because it allows you to approach a problem with a beginner's mind. That rope example though clearly shows a caveat with that approach. In an ideal, abstract world that solution would work. However, in the real world this solution obviously doesn't work because you can't cut a rope lengthwise without the rope coming undone.

libeclipse 10y ago

I noticed a similar phenomenon in my days at school. When solving problems on my own I was reasonably successful, but in class when I found out - or someone mentioned - that a particular problem was extremely difficult and/or no one had managed to do, I do exceptionally well in it. As for an explanation to this, I have no idea. It maybe has something to do with the fact that if I fail at the difficult problem then a lot of people have seen me fail at it, but that's just guesswork.

petra 10y ago

They say that solving someone else's problem helps you think abstractly . But why do you have to use tricks to think abstractly ? why not just do so on purpose ? intentionally ?

mkagenius 10y ago
Its just the way our mind works, it gets kind of tired doing the task you _have_ to do. That's why people like doing "side projects". It gives them a kick out of thinking in new ways.
MichaelGG 10y ago
Because our brains are rather busted hardware for which abstract thought is a last-minute feature.
grzm 10y ago
The mind isn't as rational or straightforward as we would perhaps prefer. You can look at phenomena like split-brain studies to see just how bizarre it can be.[0] I'm not saying the split-brain stuff is comparable or useful in this particular situation. It's just the first concrete example of surprising, non-intuitive mind behavior I thought of. Figuring out what tricks work can help us leverage these behaviors in ways that are useful. And maybe we'll learn how to get the benefits in a more direct manner, intentionally. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain

pessimizer 10y ago

This seems like one of those marginal results that the experimenter planned to find before starting the experiment that won't replicate. Also, cutting a rope in half probably won't work, and one man's creative drawings and innovative gifts are another man's silly drawings and stupid gifts. Did we discover that people are more likely to try to sell solutions that probably won't work if they know that they won't be responsible for actually carrying them out?

Retra 10y ago
I had the same conclusion reading about the alien story part. If I have to write a story about an alien, I'm going to be thinking about what it's motivations and experiences are -- distinctly human things -- but if I have to describe an alien for someone else to write about, I'll have no trouble spewing out a stream of self-contradictory, unrelatable junk. So I'm left wondering why anyone would think the second is more "creative" than the first, given that the first was designed to solve problems and the second to create them. I wouldn't think that's the kind of creativity you'd want to measure and optimize for.
alexpetralia 10y ago
This is exactly how I felt when reading this! A reasonable hypothesis followed by some weak and vague experiments (how do you measure the creativity of drawings?). I'm sure many would accept the hypothesis alone (given some reasonable-sounding justification) without ever looking to see if the experiments truly validate the hypothesis. What bias is this called again? It's not Texas Sharpshooter is it? Maybe just poor science? Again, this is not to say the effect does not exist (I personally believe it does) - just that the conclusion does not follow from the evidence.
syllogism 10y ago
Had exactly the same reaction! Nobody should be buying an argument on this sort of basis anymore. The business of selling us some truthy conclusion and thin social psych evidence in favour should be dead.

known 10y ago

No intrinsic motivation. http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/inmotiv.htm http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/inmotiv.htm

scribu 10y ago
That's an interesting article you linked to, but how is motivation (intrinsic or otherwise) relevant to the topic of problem solving?

pavlov 10y ago

Isn't this essentially why consulting firms exist?

hprotagonist 10y ago

This is deeply unsurprising. If you can put aside your ego head game, I find that I can get a LOT more done.

nichochar 10y ago

I discovered this as a trick when I was a teenager. I realized that when the guy ahead of me in Math class asked me to explain something, even if I wasn't sure my ego kicked in and my brain automatically went in overdrive to try and help him solve the problem, or perform an explanation. I actually now use this trick: when I am blocked on a hard problem, or I find myself losing motivation, I imagine someone I would want to impress asking me the exact question, and spend 10s visualizing the scenario. It works!

js8 10y ago

I love to solve other people's problems! You can only gain: - If you succeed, they will be thankful. - If you fail, well, it's not your problem. Also, you can let them do the obvious/boring stuff, like bureaucracy.

bitL 10y ago

Remote work is dead :(

CoryG89 10y ago

I don't know if I am more creative when helping my co-workers with their problems, but strangely I do feel more motivated to find a solution when it is for someone else's work. Weird.

agumonkey 10y ago

It's a source my procrastination, I'm much more motivated to reflect on other's issue rather than my own. I even consider this a psychological issue.

ryanmarsh 10y ago

My job is to help my clients get better at making software. I've done this with great success, but I couldn't ship something on my own if my life depended on it.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Terr_ 10y ago

I think it's partly about risk/anxiety/blame. If it's not my problem, I'm not preoccupied with the emotional component.

diegoperini 10y ago

We use our UX designers as rubber ducks just for that, it usually helps more than anticipated.

atemerev 10y ago

Observed it myself. While at work, I designed sophisticated ops / workflow automation systems, with continuous integration, Docker, test reporting and whatsnot. For my own development? Nah, too much work, I'll do it manually (and I happily wasted huge amounts of accumulated time). Irrational, but true.

mattkrause 10y ago

Here's a link to the original paper: http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/FacultyAndResearch/AcademicAreas/Marketing/-/media/Files/Programs-and-Areas/Marketing/papers/PolmanEmichPSPB.pdf http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/FacultyAndResearch/AcademicAre...

Can_Not 10y ago

This is reality interesting and reminds me of a real life anecdote. Imagine a customer who has a small trivial request where the correct response was "no, we won't do that and you will not need it" but without a manager's permission, the sales guy and an engineer stopped working on their mission critical projects to snipe in this tiny request in a non reusable way. It was already extremely low benefit to high cost (labor + opportunity cost). Management finds out half a lost day's work later and is really pissed off.

itsobvious 10y ago

i know many IT guys who turn this on its head