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I know what you mean. That Bayshore stop is baffling: http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/47/72/11/10461791/3/920x920.jpg http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/47/72/11/10461791

I know what you mean. That Bayshore stop is baffling: http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/47/72/11/10461791/3/920x920.jpg http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/47/72/11/10461791/3/920x920.jpg Sure, it's near a waste processing plant. But the fact that the area around it is just a square mile of shrubs and dirt is ridiculous. They could probably fit 2000 homes there right by the train station, 15 minutes from San Francisco, 10 minutes from the airport, 10 minutes from Milbrae BART. Other vastly under-built areas like Belmont also raise questions. However, Hillsdale and Redwood City have done a good job building dense housing right around their respective stations.

inferiorhuman 10y ago
The Bayshore station isn't really baffling. It's an ex-Southern Pacific railyard and requires significan cleanup. The city of Brisbane (where the station is) wants to build an industrial park, pretty much everyone else wants that development to include housing. It's been in the news quite a bit.
- paulsutter 10y ago
  It is truly baffling that there is any debate or delay. The obvious answer is to build high density housing and offices there. Low density suburban anything would be a tragedy.
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    Not really. Rail yards are usually a real shitshow in terms of toxic contamination and nasty stuff. One site near my home just had a casino built on it, which will require active ventilation of wells sunk in the ground for years to prevent toxic gas buildup.
    - Zach_the_Lizard 10y ago
      Quite a few neighborhoods are built on or being built on them. The two that come to mind in recent years are the new Hudson Yards neighborhood in NYC (being built on the West Side Yard) and Potomac Yards (built where those rail yards were) in Alexandria, VA right outside DC. A number of Manhattan neighborhoods are built on former rail yards. On mobile but I believe there is even a wikipedia page on it. If the demand is high enough developers would love to clean it up. SF prices are at that level.
      - inferiorhuman 10y ago
        The developers do want to clean it up and build housing. The city (and residents) of Brisbane are the objectors. In this case I think the planned development would roughly double the population of Brisbane. It's understandable that they would object, but less sympathetic given how absurdly low density Brisbane is.
  - pascalxus 10y ago
    And for christ sake, get rid of the darn height limitations. Why on earth would you have height limitations in the first place??? the only height limitations there should be are economic and those should be determined by developers and demand, nothing else. Around every station in the bay area, I see nothing more than 3 to 5 stories at the most, or even less.
  - scharfstevenm 10y ago
    It's actually not baffling. Cities want more offices and less housing because housing requires costly services that aren't covered by property taxes, especially if it's high-density rental housing which rarely changes owners. Remember, parcel taxes are assessed per parcel, not per unit. A 1000 unit for-sale condo complex generates 1000 parcel taxes. A 1000 unit rental complex on the same parcel generates 1 parcel tax. And the apartment owner lobby (CAA) fights successfully to keep this system in place. Cities like retail because of the sales tax revenue, but developers don't like it because retail is less profitable than commercial office or rental housing. Anytime something seems obvious, there is probably a good reason why there's more to it than meets the eye. Solving these issues is so hard because the developers have the money to lobby legislators to avoid any solution that would impact them financially.
idlewords 10y ago
I took a tour of the Recology plant there (highly recommended!) and asked the same question. Apparently there's a development plan in place and they expect to start building housing soon, though the person I spoke to didn't now the timeline.
yardie 10y ago
I've learned anytime there is a large tract of land undeveloped in a highly sought after area, 90% chance it is a superfund site.
- drdeadringer 10y ago
  It has been over 15 years since I've heard the term "superfund", and only then because I had a school assignment to debate over the pros and cons. Is there actually no news about superfund sites or have I been accidentally not paying attention to a profound degree for over a decade and a half?
  - sjg007 10y ago
    They stopped talking about them but they are there.
jcrawfordor 10y ago
There is a long-term plan in place for that area, and phases of it such as the Schlage Lock Plant land reuse are already beginning, but in typical bay area governmental style it has taken far too long for the cities of San Francisco and Brisbane to come to an agreement and for construction to begin. Re-use is complicated by needed environmental remediation, the town border cutting through the Baylands, and the (largely deserved) poor reputation of the nearby Viz as an unsafe and undesirable area. However, the land value is there, and construction could have come much faster if the local governments approach to housing development was not obstructionist first.
- kspaans 10y ago
  I bike to the Bayshore Caltrain station every morning and at the North end of the station they have started construction for something. There is a retaining wall put up and various heavy machinery moving earth around. And further up Geneva Ave, a 10-15 minute walk away there is a relatively new apartment complex with 'now leasing' signs.

inferiorhuman 10y ago

The Bayshore station isn't really baffling. It's an ex-Southern Pacific railyard and requires significan cleanup. The city of Brisbane (where the station is) wants to build an industrial park, pretty much everyone else wants that development to include housing. It's been in the news quite a bit.

paulsutter 10y ago
It is truly baffling that there is any debate or delay. The obvious answer is to build high density housing and offices there. Low density suburban anything would be a tragedy.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  Not really. Rail yards are usually a real shitshow in terms of toxic contamination and nasty stuff. One site near my home just had a casino built on it, which will require active ventilation of wells sunk in the ground for years to prevent toxic gas buildup.
  - Zach_the_Lizard 10y ago
    Quite a few neighborhoods are built on or being built on them. The two that come to mind in recent years are the new Hudson Yards neighborhood in NYC (being built on the West Side Yard) and Potomac Yards (built where those rail yards were) in Alexandria, VA right outside DC. A number of Manhattan neighborhoods are built on former rail yards. On mobile but I believe there is even a wikipedia page on it. If the demand is high enough developers would love to clean it up. SF prices are at that level.
    - inferiorhuman 10y ago
      The developers do want to clean it up and build housing. The city (and residents) of Brisbane are the objectors. In this case I think the planned development would roughly double the population of Brisbane. It's understandable that they would object, but less sympathetic given how absurdly low density Brisbane is.
- pascalxus 10y ago
  And for christ sake, get rid of the darn height limitations. Why on earth would you have height limitations in the first place??? the only height limitations there should be are economic and those should be determined by developers and demand, nothing else. Around every station in the bay area, I see nothing more than 3 to 5 stories at the most, or even less.
- scharfstevenm 10y ago
  It's actually not baffling. Cities want more offices and less housing because housing requires costly services that aren't covered by property taxes, especially if it's high-density rental housing which rarely changes owners. Remember, parcel taxes are assessed per parcel, not per unit. A 1000 unit for-sale condo complex generates 1000 parcel taxes. A 1000 unit rental complex on the same parcel generates 1 parcel tax. And the apartment owner lobby (CAA) fights successfully to keep this system in place. Cities like retail because of the sales tax revenue, but developers don't like it because retail is less profitable than commercial office or rental housing. Anytime something seems obvious, there is probably a good reason why there's more to it than meets the eye. Solving these issues is so hard because the developers have the money to lobby legislators to avoid any solution that would impact them financially.

idlewords 10y ago

I took a tour of the Recology plant there (highly recommended!) and asked the same question. Apparently there's a development plan in place and they expect to start building housing soon, though the person I spoke to didn't now the timeline.

yardie 10y ago

I've learned anytime there is a large tract of land undeveloped in a highly sought after area, 90% chance it is a superfund site.

drdeadringer 10y ago
It has been over 15 years since I've heard the term "superfund", and only then because I had a school assignment to debate over the pros and cons. Is there actually no news about superfund sites or have I been accidentally not paying attention to a profound degree for over a decade and a half?
- sjg007 10y ago
  They stopped talking about them but they are there.

jcrawfordor 10y ago

There is a long-term plan in place for that area, and phases of it such as the Schlage Lock Plant land reuse are already beginning, but in typical bay area governmental style it has taken far too long for the cities of San Francisco and Brisbane to come to an agreement and for construction to begin. Re-use is complicated by needed environmental remediation, the town border cutting through the Baylands, and the (largely deserved) poor reputation of the nearby Viz as an unsafe and undesirable area. However, the land value is there, and construction could have come much faster if the local governments approach to housing development was not obstructionist first.

kspaans 10y ago
I bike to the Bayshore Caltrain station every morning and at the North end of the station they have started construction for something. There is a retaining wall put up and various heavy machinery moving earth around. And further up Geneva Ave, a 10-15 minute walk away there is a relatively new apartment complex with 'now leasing' signs.