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"What should young people do with their lives today? Many things, obviously. But the most daring thing is to create stable communities in which the terrible dis

"What should young people do with their lives today? Many things, obviously. But the most daring thing is to create stable communities in which the terrible disease of loneliness can be cured." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. While I sometimes understand the bemoaning of top engineers spending time on trivial apps, sometimes those apps aren't as trivial as you would think when you consider how they positively impact loneliness. Of course, there's plenty of garbage out there, but I do love to see efforts to connect people in ways that can be serendipitous and have the possibility of leading to more meaningful connection. I can think of multiple long-time valuable real-life relationships I've had where our first connections were on some trivial platform. Sometimes it's hard to see past the glaring negatives that come with some of those platforms, but I'm hopeful that better options will evolve over time.

unixhero 10y ago
This is what universities, clubs and festivals are for.
- vog 10y ago
  Moreover, there are many usergroups and meetups - at least for people who are open-minded and not totally technology-avoiding. For example, here in Berlin you can get out almost every evening in the week, and you'll find one public meetup with similar-interested people. Well, usually not just one, but multiple events happening at the same time, so you have to decide where to go. There are political groups such as FSFE (Free Software Foundation Europe), DigitalCourage, DigiGes. There are general-topic technology groups such as CCCB (Chaos Computer Club Berlin) and the various LUGs (Linux User Groups). And there are lots of specialized groups for various programming languages, frameworks, technologies or editors: Haskell, C++, PHP, JavaScript, Bitcoin, Freifunk, Android, Drupal, Vim, Emacs, and so on. Even for children, there is a growing community that oranized various CoderDojo events. Alternatively, you could blindly visit one of the many hacker spaces (IN-Berlin, c-base, Fablab, E-LOK, AFRA, Raumzeitlabor, ...) and just step into whatever event is happening there this evening.
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    To be honest I don't consider tech meetups socializing. Of course they have a value, but it's good to go in different directions, especially for people that already work and do a lot in that domain
  - dagw 10y ago
    Moreover, there are many usergroups and meetups I've been to lots of those, almost always found something interesting about them and many times I've even had fun, but I've always left them just as lonely as I was when I went in. They're a great way to learn something, pass the time and find people to chat tech with for while, but I've never found them particularly good for making social contacts.
- praptak 10y ago
  These don't work for shy people and are ineffective for forming connections that are based on unpopular interests.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - majewsky 10y ago
    This. I attended student parties maybe once or twice in my life, and it was always awful. Meeting people with shared interests is much more effective for me at forming meaningful acquaintances and friendships.
  - unixhero 10y ago
    You must work with yourself then. Getting out there is the only way.
- return0 10y ago
  Arent those typical middle class venues?
- spraak 10y ago
  The Living Rooms, at least from the article's perspective, seem to focus on homeless, recovering from addiction, or those suffering depression, so your suggestion is more for 'regular' people who are just bored.
cbhl 10y ago
If you're in one of the cities that holds them, you should consider going to a Tea with Strangers event: http://www.teawithstrangers.com/ http://www.teawithstrangers.com/
rublev 10y ago
>While I sometimes understand the bemoaning of top engineers spending time on trivial apps, sometimes those apps aren't as trivial as you would think when you consider how they positively impact loneliness. Absolutely not. Abstracting a layer of communication, shedding it of any humanity, and lazily pasting over emotion with emoji, is hardly a 'cure' for loneliness. If anything it makes you feel more lonely. Some Silicon Valley dipshit with a Macbook isn't going to solve loneliness with an app. Sometimes I wish Zuck just had a girlfriend who would have told him FB was a stupid idea and we would have never found ourselves 'here'. I draw the line in 'social tech bullshit' at the phone call, at least I can hear the vocal inflections. Anything below phone call like texting is used strictly to meet up.
- CJKinni 10y ago
  I strongly disagree. Personally, I found text based communications really beneficial while getting through difficult bouts of loneliness in my life. Moments where loniness and anxiety fought over which could make me more miserable. Would hanging out with someone in person have been a better cure for that loneliness? Sure, but I didn't have anyone and was too stressed out to make finding a group setting worthwhile. I certainly have moments when I unrealistically dream that I'd never had the issues that I do. I say to myself 'you know all that bullshit stress you had? Instead of trying to cure it through technology you should have just gone out and done it that way.' In those moments I try to remember what it was really like, getting through hard times. I always accept that I wasn't in a position to do that yet. There isn't one app that ever 'solved' loneliness, and some of those that tried didn't work for me. Facebook still makes me feel anxious and judged by others, for example. But I speak with friends for whom Facebook is a pleasure to use. I'm glad there are a ton of engineers focusing their time on the trivial task of helping solve loneliness. They certainly made apps and programs and protocols that have helped me. And the more I talk to other people about it, the more people I find have been helped through technology. Certain apps and strategies for fighting loneliness won't work for everyone, and acknowledging what doesn't work for you is great. But I'd never wish for a time when there weren't people out there trying.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
bogomipz 10y ago
>"While I sometimes understand the bemoaning of top engineers spending time on trivial apps, sometimes those apps aren't as trivial as you would think when you consider how they positively impact loneliness." How does interacting with an app and text on my phone instead of interacting with actual speech and people who are present in my surrounding impact loneliness?
mightymustard 10y ago
Slightly off-topic, but that is a very nice quote by Vonnegut. I have been on a Vonnegut mood lately, and noticed that he was pretty keen on community and its role in a person's life. I especially like this one as well: "Humanist try to behave decently and honorably without any expectation of rewards or punishments in afterlife. Andsince the creator of the universe is unknowable to us so far, we serve as best as we can the highest abstraction ofwhich we have some understanding, which is our community." His views on community have been slowly changing the way I interact with people.

unixhero 10y ago

This is what universities, clubs and festivals are for.

vog 10y ago
Moreover, there are many usergroups and meetups - at least for people who are open-minded and not totally technology-avoiding. For example, here in Berlin you can get out almost every evening in the week, and you'll find one public meetup with similar-interested people. Well, usually not just one, but multiple events happening at the same time, so you have to decide where to go. There are political groups such as FSFE (Free Software Foundation Europe), DigitalCourage, DigiGes. There are general-topic technology groups such as CCCB (Chaos Computer Club Berlin) and the various LUGs (Linux User Groups). And there are lots of specialized groups for various programming languages, frameworks, technologies or editors: Haskell, C++, PHP, JavaScript, Bitcoin, Freifunk, Android, Drupal, Vim, Emacs, and so on. Even for children, there is a growing community that oranized various CoderDojo events. Alternatively, you could blindly visit one of the many hacker spaces (IN-Berlin, c-base, Fablab, E-LOK, AFRA, Raumzeitlabor, ...) and just step into whatever event is happening there this evening.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  To be honest I don't consider tech meetups socializing. Of course they have a value, but it's good to go in different directions, especially for people that already work and do a lot in that domain
- dagw 10y ago
  Moreover, there are many usergroups and meetups I've been to lots of those, almost always found something interesting about them and many times I've even had fun, but I've always left them just as lonely as I was when I went in. They're a great way to learn something, pass the time and find people to chat tech with for while, but I've never found them particularly good for making social contacts.
praptak 10y ago
These don't work for shy people and are ineffective for forming connections that are based on unpopular interests.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- majewsky 10y ago
  This. I attended student parties maybe once or twice in my life, and it was always awful. Meeting people with shared interests is much more effective for me at forming meaningful acquaintances and friendships.
- unixhero 10y ago
  You must work with yourself then. Getting out there is the only way.
return0 10y ago
Arent those typical middle class venues?
spraak 10y ago
The Living Rooms, at least from the article's perspective, seem to focus on homeless, recovering from addiction, or those suffering depression, so your suggestion is more for 'regular' people who are just bored.

cbhl 10y ago

If you're in one of the cities that holds them, you should consider going to a Tea with Strangers event: http://www.teawithstrangers.com/ http://www.teawithstrangers.com/

rublev 10y ago

>While I sometimes understand the bemoaning of top engineers spending time on trivial apps, sometimes those apps aren't as trivial as you would think when you consider how they positively impact loneliness. Absolutely not. Abstracting a layer of communication, shedding it of any humanity, and lazily pasting over emotion with emoji, is hardly a 'cure' for loneliness. If anything it makes you feel more lonely. Some Silicon Valley dipshit with a Macbook isn't going to solve loneliness with an app. Sometimes I wish Zuck just had a girlfriend who would have told him FB was a stupid idea and we would have never found ourselves 'here'. I draw the line in 'social tech bullshit' at the phone call, at least I can hear the vocal inflections. Anything below phone call like texting is used strictly to meet up.

CJKinni 10y ago
I strongly disagree. Personally, I found text based communications really beneficial while getting through difficult bouts of loneliness in my life. Moments where loniness and anxiety fought over which could make me more miserable. Would hanging out with someone in person have been a better cure for that loneliness? Sure, but I didn't have anyone and was too stressed out to make finding a group setting worthwhile. I certainly have moments when I unrealistically dream that I'd never had the issues that I do. I say to myself 'you know all that bullshit stress you had? Instead of trying to cure it through technology you should have just gone out and done it that way.' In those moments I try to remember what it was really like, getting through hard times. I always accept that I wasn't in a position to do that yet. There isn't one app that ever 'solved' loneliness, and some of those that tried didn't work for me. Facebook still makes me feel anxious and judged by others, for example. But I speak with friends for whom Facebook is a pleasure to use. I'm glad there are a ton of engineers focusing their time on the trivial task of helping solve loneliness. They certainly made apps and programs and protocols that have helped me. And the more I talk to other people about it, the more people I find have been helped through technology. Certain apps and strategies for fighting loneliness won't work for everyone, and acknowledging what doesn't work for you is great. But I'd never wish for a time when there weren't people out there trying.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

bogomipz 10y ago

>"While I sometimes understand the bemoaning of top engineers spending time on trivial apps, sometimes those apps aren't as trivial as you would think when you consider how they positively impact loneliness." How does interacting with an app and text on my phone instead of interacting with actual speech and people who are present in my surrounding impact loneliness?

mightymustard 10y ago

Slightly off-topic, but that is a very nice quote by Vonnegut. I have been on a Vonnegut mood lately, and noticed that he was pretty keen on community and its role in a person's life. I especially like this one as well: "Humanist try to behave decently and honorably without any expectation of rewards or punishments in afterlife. Andsince the creator of the universe is unknowable to us so far, we serve as best as we can the highest abstraction ofwhich we have some understanding, which is our community." His views on community have been slowly changing the way I interact with people.