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The science is pretty settled here. No such thing can exist by laws of physics. You might as well try making a perpetual motion machine or homeopathic medicine.

StanislavPetrov 10y ago
>The science is pretty settled here. No such thing can exist... Thanks, this more neatly sums up the attitude I was attempting to describe then anything I could come up with. The hubris that is endemic in much of the "scientific" community is simply amazing. Another glaring example of the gap between education and intelligence.
- Oletros 10y ago
  Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof and until now there is no single proof or theory. so yes, it is not hubris, it is science. > Another glaring example of the gap between education and intelligence. Pot kettle?
EvgeniyZh 10y ago
Scientific method say that if observation contradicts your theory, then your theory is wrong.
- gus_massa 10y ago
  One of the more important things that you learn in a laboratory is that experimental science is hard. There are many source of experimental errors. So it's not enough to have an experimental result, it's necessary to check very carefully the details to be convinced that it breaks the theory. In this case, the problem is that they are measuring a very small force, and many things can cause small forces. So you must be sure that all the other possible small forces sources are under check and that the force you are measuring is created by the method you are trying to measure. In this case, the most obvious candidates for errors are: * Thermal: The device gets very hot, so there may be some thermal expansions and some thermal air currents. * Electromagnetic: They use a lot of current, so the wires that connect the device may be acting as an electromagnet or something. They try to bound this error, but it's very hard to estimated correctly how big each one of them are, and prove that they are smaller than the force they see in the experiment.
gus_massa 10y ago
Actually, IF this were true and they really were breaking the conservation of momentum law, then by special relativity in most of the reference frames they must be breaking the conservation of energy law. So if this were true then they could build a perpetual motion machine too. IIRC one possible design was to put two em-drives with opposite directions at the opposite sides of a carousel. [Disclaimer: I think that this is an experimental error and that the conservation of momentum and energy laws are safe.]

StanislavPetrov 10y ago

>The science is pretty settled here. No such thing can exist... Thanks, this more neatly sums up the attitude I was attempting to describe then anything I could come up with. The hubris that is endemic in much of the "scientific" community is simply amazing. Another glaring example of the gap between education and intelligence.

Oletros 10y ago
Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof and until now there is no single proof or theory. so yes, it is not hubris, it is science. > Another glaring example of the gap between education and intelligence. Pot kettle?

EvgeniyZh 10y ago

Scientific method say that if observation contradicts your theory, then your theory is wrong.

gus_massa 10y ago
One of the more important things that you learn in a laboratory is that experimental science is hard. There are many source of experimental errors. So it's not enough to have an experimental result, it's necessary to check very carefully the details to be convinced that it breaks the theory. In this case, the problem is that they are measuring a very small force, and many things can cause small forces. So you must be sure that all the other possible small forces sources are under check and that the force you are measuring is created by the method you are trying to measure. In this case, the most obvious candidates for errors are: * Thermal: The device gets very hot, so there may be some thermal expansions and some thermal air currents. * Electromagnetic: They use a lot of current, so the wires that connect the device may be acting as an electromagnet or something. They try to bound this error, but it's very hard to estimated correctly how big each one of them are, and prove that they are smaller than the force they see in the experiment.

gus_massa 10y ago

Actually, IF this were true and they really were breaking the conservation of momentum law, then by special relativity in most of the reference frames they must be breaking the conservation of energy law. So if this were true then they could build a perpetual motion machine too. IIRC one possible design was to put two em-drives with opposite directions at the opposite sides of a carousel. [Disclaimer: I think that this is an experimental error and that the conservation of momentum and energy laws are safe.]