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There is ample evidence that we cannot write software that can be installed, run and updated in a simple and secure manner. Software is too complex with too man

There is ample evidence that we cannot write software that can be installed, run and updated in a simple and secure manner. Software is too complex with too many dependencies. Hackers are are better than us almost every time -- and once in the can bounce around at will. I just want to run my own containers or those written by others on commodity services from Amazon, Google or Microsoft. Or even spin up my own environment if it suits me. I want to be able to install and remove software quickly, completely and whenever I want. I especially want to be able to install software I don't fully trust with no fear of consequences. I want to be able to install multiple versions and even multiple instances. I want my PC (Mac/Linux/Windows) to be a thin hypervisor with everything in a container, including IO and UI. I still want open source projects on GitHub that I can fork and contribute changes to at will. I want containers to be small and ultra simple. All of this means that my "OS" only needs to manage containers and resources. All traditional elements sould be in their own container such as logging, authentication, window managers.

taeric 10y ago
You seem to be implying that containers are somehow immune to hackers... Truth is, it is relatively easy to keep a machine secure. Just not if you want it to be a convenient machine. You think you want containers all isolated from each other. Except for the uncountable times and ways you want to exchange data between them. This, at the least, includes the data of who you are, as the user.
- johncolanduoni 10y ago
  > Truth is, it is relatively easy to keep a machine secure. Just not if you want it to be a convenient machine. So the people who build high assurance systems (which currently require a ton of work) are all too focused on convenience?
  - taeric 10y ago
    Getting work done is a huge convenience. :) Specifically, remote access is a huge convenience that by itself moves the problem out of the easy territory.
theamk 10y ago
Replace "containers" with "virtual machines" (because really, the containers are secure only until the next kernel exploit, which happens fairly often), and you get Qubes OS: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/architecture/ https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/architecture/ It tries to move everything into containers, including hardware drivers, and if you read their architecture paper you will see their design ends up being nontrivial.
zzzzzzzza 10y ago
I want to be able to install and remove software quickly, completely and whenever I want. I want to be able to install multiple versions and even multiple instances. sounds like nixos might have some of the properties you want, without containerizing everything

taeric 10y ago

You seem to be implying that containers are somehow immune to hackers... Truth is, it is relatively easy to keep a machine secure. Just not if you want it to be a convenient machine. You think you want containers all isolated from each other. Except for the uncountable times and ways you want to exchange data between them. This, at the least, includes the data of who you are, as the user.

johncolanduoni 10y ago
> Truth is, it is relatively easy to keep a machine secure. Just not if you want it to be a convenient machine. So the people who build high assurance systems (which currently require a ton of work) are all too focused on convenience?
- taeric 10y ago
  Getting work done is a huge convenience. :) Specifically, remote access is a huge convenience that by itself moves the problem out of the easy territory.

theamk 10y ago

Replace "containers" with "virtual machines" (because really, the containers are secure only until the next kernel exploit, which happens fairly often), and you get Qubes OS: https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/architecture/ https://www.qubes-os.org/doc/architecture/ It tries to move everything into containers, including hardware drivers, and if you read their architecture paper you will see their design ends up being nontrivial.

zzzzzzzza 10y ago

I want to be able to install and remove software quickly, completely and whenever I want. I want to be able to install multiple versions and even multiple instances. sounds like nixos might have some of the properties you want, without containerizing everything