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The author states that NORAD "... dropped the ball on 9/11.." Let's be clear, NORAD did not drop the ball on 9/11. You can certainly make the argument that th

The author states that NORAD "... dropped the ball on 9/11.." Let's be clear, NORAD did not drop the ball on 9/11. You can certainly make the argument that the FBI, CIA, and NSA (and other US intelligence services) dropped the ball on 9/11, but NORAD did not. NORAD's primary goal has never been to stop terrorism/hijacking from occurring on passenger planes within the United States, but rather to warn of enemy planes and missiles from _entering_ the US. (this did change somewhat after 9/11, but that's after the fact...) Frankly, I stopped reading the article after this line, because clearly the author doesn't know what they're talking about. But if you're interested in this sort of thing, I'd recommend starting here: Strategic Air Command: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Air_Command https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Air_Command I just finished reading Command and Control by Eric Schlosser, it's a pretty decent primer on early US nuclear deterrence and such things as SAC and NORAD. (though there are better books specifically about SAC/NORAD, this is an overarching general/popular history.)

jessriedel 10y ago
> Let's be clear, NORAD did not drop the ball on 9/11...NORAD's primary goal has never been to stop terrorism/hijacking from occurring on passenger planes within the United States, but rather to warn of enemy planes and missiles from _entering_ the US. I have no idea whether NORAD deserved any blame, but Wikipedia suggests NORAD's mission includes scrambling jets to deal with hijacked airplanes: > Standing orders on September 11 dictated that, upon receiving a request for assistance from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) would normally order escort aircraft to approach and follow an aircraft that was confirmed to be hijacked in order to assure positive flight following, report unusual observances, and aid search and rescue in the event of an emergency.[1] The 9/11 Commission determined that on the morning of September 11, the FAA deliberately did not adequately notify NORAD of the hijackings of Flights 11, 77, 93, or 175 in time for escort aircraft to reach the hijacked flights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_response_during_the_September_11_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_response_during_... I mean, I guess you could argue that's not their "primary mission", but then I don't think that is in conflict with the OP's assertion that they "dropped the ball".
- privong 10y ago
  > I mean, I guess you could argue that's not their "primary mission", but then I don't think that is in conflict with the OP's assertion that they "dropped the ball". Part of what you quoted does seem to be in conflict with the article's assertion that NORAD dropped the ball: "The 9/11 Commission determined that on the morning of September 11, the FAA deliberately did not adequately notify NORAD of the hijackings of Flights 11, 77, 93, or 175 in time for escort aircraft to reach the hijacked flights." So, if anything, that means the FAA dropped the ball, not NORAD.
  - jessriedel 10y ago
    I'm well aware of that. See my reply to sgnelson.
- sgnelson 10y ago
  Yeah, just no. From: http://www.history.com/topics/9-11-timeline http://www.history.com/topics/9-11-timeline and the above linked Wikipedia article, "8:40 am – The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) alerts North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD)’s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) about the suspected hijacking of Flight 11. In response, NEADS scrambles two fighter planes located at Cape Cod’s Otis Air National Guard Base to locate and tail Flight 11; they are not yet in the air when Flight 11 crashes into the North Tower [at 8:46, the second plane hits at 9:03]." The first report of Flight 11 being hijacked seems to be at 8:19am, given a lag of 21 minutes before the hijacking was reported to NORAD, and thus giving the F15's coming from Cape Cod to intercept and (possibly/probably shoot down?) the planes in 6 and 17 minutes respectively. And because planes don't magically leap into the sky, The F15's were not in the air until 8:53 (at which point Flight 11 had crashed 7 minutes previously, and it was just 10 minutes until Flight 175 hits the tower). So yes, I don't believe there is any _reasonable_ proof that NORAD "dropped the ball". If you really feel (like the OG author) that NORAD deserves some blame, great. But considering all the institutional failures of our intelligence services that occurred before the hijackers ever stepped foot on the planes, it's strange/weird/stupid/asinine/missing the point/whatever to blame NORAD for 9/11 (at any meaningful scale). "Damn you NORAD for not having fighters capable of Mach 10 in the air knowing those planes were going to be hijacked at that specific day and already having a plan in place that gave a single fighter pilot the ability to shoot down a US flagged civilian airliner with the knowledge aforethought to know those airliners would be used as physical weapons rather than the traditional hostage taking that had occurred in the past!"

jessriedel 10y ago

> Let's be clear, NORAD did not drop the ball on 9/11...NORAD's primary goal has never been to stop terrorism/hijacking from occurring on passenger planes within the United States, but rather to warn of enemy planes and missiles from _entering_ the US. I have no idea whether NORAD deserved any blame, but Wikipedia suggests NORAD's mission includes scrambling jets to deal with hijacked airplanes: > Standing orders on September 11 dictated that, upon receiving a request for assistance from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) would normally order escort aircraft to approach and follow an aircraft that was confirmed to be hijacked in order to assure positive flight following, report unusual observances, and aid search and rescue in the event of an emergency.[1] The 9/11 Commission determined that on the morning of September 11, the FAA deliberately did not adequately notify NORAD of the hijackings of Flights 11, 77, 93, or 175 in time for escort aircraft to reach the hijacked flights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_response_during_the_September_11_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_response_during_... I mean, I guess you could argue that's not their "primary mission", but then I don't think that is in conflict with the OP's assertion that they "dropped the ball".

privong 10y ago
> I mean, I guess you could argue that's not their "primary mission", but then I don't think that is in conflict with the OP's assertion that they "dropped the ball". Part of what you quoted does seem to be in conflict with the article's assertion that NORAD dropped the ball: "The 9/11 Commission determined that on the morning of September 11, the FAA deliberately did not adequately notify NORAD of the hijackings of Flights 11, 77, 93, or 175 in time for escort aircraft to reach the hijacked flights." So, if anything, that means the FAA dropped the ball, not NORAD.
- jessriedel 10y ago
  I'm well aware of that. See my reply to sgnelson.
sgnelson 10y ago
Yeah, just no. From: http://www.history.com/topics/9-11-timeline http://www.history.com/topics/9-11-timeline and the above linked Wikipedia article, "8:40 am – The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) alerts North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD)’s Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) about the suspected hijacking of Flight 11. In response, NEADS scrambles two fighter planes located at Cape Cod’s Otis Air National Guard Base to locate and tail Flight 11; they are not yet in the air when Flight 11 crashes into the North Tower [at 8:46, the second plane hits at 9:03]." The first report of Flight 11 being hijacked seems to be at 8:19am, given a lag of 21 minutes before the hijacking was reported to NORAD, and thus giving the F15's coming from Cape Cod to intercept and (possibly/probably shoot down?) the planes in 6 and 17 minutes respectively. And because planes don't magically leap into the sky, The F15's were not in the air until 8:53 (at which point Flight 11 had crashed 7 minutes previously, and it was just 10 minutes until Flight 175 hits the tower). So yes, I don't believe there is any _reasonable_ proof that NORAD "dropped the ball". If you really feel (like the OG author) that NORAD deserves some blame, great. But considering all the institutional failures of our intelligence services that occurred before the hijackers ever stepped foot on the planes, it's strange/weird/stupid/asinine/missing the point/whatever to blame NORAD for 9/11 (at any meaningful scale). "Damn you NORAD for not having fighters capable of Mach 10 in the air knowing those planes were going to be hijacked at that specific day and already having a plan in place that gave a single fighter pilot the ability to shoot down a US flagged civilian airliner with the knowledge aforethought to know those airliners would be used as physical weapons rather than the traditional hostage taking that had occurred in the past!"