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Have you ever considered that Apple can make mistake. iWatch analogy is correct, touch bar is the same idea for Mac as iWatch to iPhone. We know that iWatch is

by Chyzwar 10y ago

Have you ever considered that Apple can make mistake. iWatch analogy is correct, touch bar is the same idea for Mac as iWatch to iPhone. We know that iWatch is flop and there is not much enthusiasms for new Mac.

grzm 10y ago
"We know that iWatch is flop and there is not much enthusiasms for new Mac." What gives you this impression? Looking at the metrics available, it looks like the Apple Watch is doing well, as is the newest MacBook Pro. "Apple Watch revenue totaled $6 billion in its first 12 months of availability."[0] "Apple Inc. sold twice as many Watches as iPhones in each device’s debut year."[1] "And we are proud to tell you that so far our online store has had more orders for the new MacBook Pro than any other pro notebook before." -- Phil Schiller [2] "The new MacBook Pro has only been available for purchase for about six hours, but shipping estimates on the machine have already slipped from two to three weeks to three to four weeks,"[3] This last could be interpreted as Apple having drastically underestimated the stock they needed to have on hand, purposely limited stock so they could make these kinds of quotes, had supply chain issues that prevented them from having the stock they wanted, or didn't want to have large stock on hand, in preference to more JIT delivery. Happy to be corrected if you have other information. [0]: http://bgr.com/2016/04/26/apple-watch-sales-vs-rolex/ http://bgr.com/2016/04/26/apple-watch-sales-vs-rolex/ [1]: http://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-watch-with-sizable-sales-cant-shake-its-critics-1461524901 http://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-watch-with-sizable-sales-c... [2]: http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/02/phil-schiller-new-macbook-pro-interview/ http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/02/phil-schiller-new-macboo... [3]: http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/27/macbook-pro-shipping-estimates-begin-slipping/ http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/27/macbook-pro-shipping-est...
- Chyzwar 10y ago
  iWatch is not a flop why Apple do not publish sales figures[0], It fundamentaly flawed product like tablet with stylus :P Apple wanted to sell 50 milion of iWatches maybe 12-30mil was actually sold. Sure that people are buying MacBook Pro after waiting for so many years..... Your reference from macrumors may be not most objective. Just on HackerNews there was multiple articles with less than enthusiastic views. Apple became iPhone company, they relase new versions every year. Dell can release like 20 new laptops models but apple need 4 years to relase one ???? [0] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3152514/Apple-Watch-FLOP-Sales-gadget-fallen-90-April-report-claims.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3152514/Apple...
  - toasterlovin 10y ago
    If selling 12-30 million watches at $250+ each is a flop, I would love to know what you consider a success.
    - Chyzwar 10y ago
      It billions worth development and marketing effort to create market for wearable that failed. It is now clear that with current tech it is difficult to sell wearable devices that you need to charge every day by connecting cable to wall. If Apple keep releasing new versions of Macs in last three years, put more effort in operating system they would make more money than on iWatch. Just look on sales of new MacBook... Instead of focusing in core business like personal computers now they have platform that is widely inconsistent. They now lose PC market to Windows, iPhone is losing emerging markets and they are behind in innovation: VR, AR, AI...
  - grzm 10y ago
    Looks like you and I have different definitions of "flop" :) As for HN multiple articles with "less than enthusiastic views", yeah, there have been a lot of them. Apple products are pretty much guaranteed to be a polarizing topic. There's been a lot of comments associated with those articles as well. I personally like to dig into it and see what points are being made on all sides, take into account my own biases (Apple user since System 5), and look for facts that can confirm or deny the points being made. I take the views in the articles submitted to Hacker News and the comments as, for the most part, anecdotal views of a small, opinionated, sometimes thoughtful, demographic. If I counted up the number of people who have commented on Apple-related articles, I estimate it's fewer than 5000. I don't know how that correlates with the entire consumer market, but I strongly doubt it's representative. Considering the MacBook Pro was just announced on October 27 (10 days ago), there are few hard numbers out there, and very few people have actually used the Touch Bar at all, much less in anger. That doesn't mean people aren't entitled to their opinions, but it does mean we should take the lack of hands-on experience into account. macrumors.com is one of the few places that has some actual numbers out there at this time. I'll take those numbers over opinion pieces. If you know of other numbers out there, please do share. I want to know more about this (which is why I'm participating in this discussion). From the article you posted: "Slice's figures are unofficial and based on electronic receipts sent to email addresses following a purchase." Also, I don't see a dateline on the article (if I missed it, please share), but I believe it's from well over a year ago, based on the age of the comments. I would weight the Wall Street Journal from April 2016[0] more heavily than Slice some time in 2015. As for publishing sales figures, you're right: it doesn't look like Apple breaks out Apple Watch sales from its other devices. Also, note that the WSJ article is from before the release of the Watch Series 2. Please note that I am not arguing that the Apple watch is a huge success, or that it's perfect: I'm arguing it's not a flop. [0]: http://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-watch-with-sizable-sales-cant-shake-its-critics-1461524901 http://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-watch-with-sizable-sales-c... As for Apple vs Dell: They've always been very different companies. The closest they've been was likely during the Gil Amelio years when Apple produced a dizzyingly confusing array of Macintosh desktops, and nearly killed the company. Also look at the comparative success of Dell vs Apple. What is the value of the "20 new laptop models" Dell releases each year? What is the profit for the company? Sure, all things being equal, I'd like Apple to rev hardware more frequently than they've been. I think, given Apple's priorities, they released the best MacBook Pro they could at this time. There are people who aren't happy with the tradeoffs they made. There's still a huge demand for what they did release. None of this, in my eyes, supports the idea that the Apple Watch is a flop or that there is not much enthusiasm for the new Mac.

by Chyzwar 10y ago

grzm 10y ago

"We know that iWatch is flop and there is not much enthusiasms for new Mac." What gives you this impression? Looking at the metrics available, it looks like the Apple Watch is doing well, as is the newest MacBook Pro. "Apple Watch revenue totaled $6 billion in its first 12 months of availability."[0] "Apple Inc. sold twice as many Watches as iPhones in each device’s debut year."[1] "And we are proud to tell you that so far our online store has had more orders for the new MacBook Pro than any other pro notebook before." -- Phil Schiller [2] "The new MacBook Pro has only been available for purchase for about six hours, but shipping estimates on the machine have already slipped from two to three weeks to three to four weeks,"[3] This last could be interpreted as Apple having drastically underestimated the stock they needed to have on hand, purposely limited stock so they could make these kinds of quotes, had supply chain issues that prevented them from having the stock they wanted, or didn't want to have large stock on hand, in preference to more JIT delivery. Happy to be corrected if you have other information. [0]: http://bgr.com/2016/04/26/apple-watch-sales-vs-rolex/ http://bgr.com/2016/04/26/apple-watch-sales-vs-rolex/ [1]: http://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-watch-with-sizable-sales-cant-shake-its-critics-1461524901 http://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-watch-with-sizable-sales-c... [2]: http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/02/phil-schiller-new-macbook-pro-interview/ http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/02/phil-schiller-new-macboo... [3]: http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/27/macbook-pro-shipping-estimates-begin-slipping/ http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/27/macbook-pro-shipping-est...

Chyzwar 10y ago
iWatch is not a flop why Apple do not publish sales figures[0], It fundamentaly flawed product like tablet with stylus :P Apple wanted to sell 50 milion of iWatches maybe 12-30mil was actually sold. Sure that people are buying MacBook Pro after waiting for so many years..... Your reference from macrumors may be not most objective. Just on HackerNews there was multiple articles with less than enthusiastic views. Apple became iPhone company, they relase new versions every year. Dell can release like 20 new laptops models but apple need 4 years to relase one ???? [0] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3152514/Apple-Watch-FLOP-Sales-gadget-fallen-90-April-report-claims.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3152514/Apple...
- toasterlovin 10y ago
  If selling 12-30 million watches at $250+ each is a flop, I would love to know what you consider a success.
  - Chyzwar 10y ago
    It billions worth development and marketing effort to create market for wearable that failed. It is now clear that with current tech it is difficult to sell wearable devices that you need to charge every day by connecting cable to wall. If Apple keep releasing new versions of Macs in last three years, put more effort in operating system they would make more money than on iWatch. Just look on sales of new MacBook... Instead of focusing in core business like personal computers now they have platform that is widely inconsistent. They now lose PC market to Windows, iPhone is losing emerging markets and they are behind in innovation: VR, AR, AI...
- grzm 10y ago
  Looks like you and I have different definitions of "flop" :) As for HN multiple articles with "less than enthusiastic views", yeah, there have been a lot of them. Apple products are pretty much guaranteed to be a polarizing topic. There's been a lot of comments associated with those articles as well. I personally like to dig into it and see what points are being made on all sides, take into account my own biases (Apple user since System 5), and look for facts that can confirm or deny the points being made. I take the views in the articles submitted to Hacker News and the comments as, for the most part, anecdotal views of a small, opinionated, sometimes thoughtful, demographic. If I counted up the number of people who have commented on Apple-related articles, I estimate it's fewer than 5000. I don't know how that correlates with the entire consumer market, but I strongly doubt it's representative. Considering the MacBook Pro was just announced on October 27 (10 days ago), there are few hard numbers out there, and very few people have actually used the Touch Bar at all, much less in anger. That doesn't mean people aren't entitled to their opinions, but it does mean we should take the lack of hands-on experience into account. macrumors.com is one of the few places that has some actual numbers out there at this time. I'll take those numbers over opinion pieces. If you know of other numbers out there, please do share. I want to know more about this (which is why I'm participating in this discussion). From the article you posted: "Slice's figures are unofficial and based on electronic receipts sent to email addresses following a purchase." Also, I don't see a dateline on the article (if I missed it, please share), but I believe it's from well over a year ago, based on the age of the comments. I would weight the Wall Street Journal from April 2016[0] more heavily than Slice some time in 2015. As for publishing sales figures, you're right: it doesn't look like Apple breaks out Apple Watch sales from its other devices. Also, note that the WSJ article is from before the release of the Watch Series 2. Please note that I am not arguing that the Apple watch is a huge success, or that it's perfect: I'm arguing it's not a flop. [0]: http://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-watch-with-sizable-sales-cant-shake-its-critics-1461524901 http://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-watch-with-sizable-sales-c... As for Apple vs Dell: They've always been very different companies. The closest they've been was likely during the Gil Amelio years when Apple produced a dizzyingly confusing array of Macintosh desktops, and nearly killed the company. Also look at the comparative success of Dell vs Apple. What is the value of the "20 new laptop models" Dell releases each year? What is the profit for the company? Sure, all things being equal, I'd like Apple to rev hardware more frequently than they've been. I think, given Apple's priorities, they released the best MacBook Pro they could at this time. There are people who aren't happy with the tradeoffs they made. There's still a huge demand for what they did release. None of this, in my eyes, supports the idea that the Apple Watch is a flop or that there is not much enthusiasm for the new Mac.